Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond' started by Spam Bot, Nov 22, 2012.
I do like the idea of a sith pretender
Then you pretty much don't get the point of Star Wars.
It's amazingly surprising to see how many of you don't get Star Wars.
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Had another thought about the idea of a Nightsister finding a Sith holocron. Perhaps the holocron could have been created by Darth Plagueis, contain information relating to his abilities, as described by Palpatine in RoTS.
"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create...life. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about...from dying .... the dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."
Of course, this is only an idea I had, but must confess that I was quite gripped by imagining the opening scenes in my mind's eye yesterday morning.
The way I see it there was balance brought meaning that the sith were not completely destroyed, but they are no longer a credible threat. There has to be both a dark and light side of the force. Or maybe I'm just rambling. I'm really tired.
Star Wars IS the Tragedy of Darth Vader. The amount of material in the EU doesn't change that. The reason why he brought the prophecy is pretty much a mythological one. Go ahead and read the books by Joseph Campbell and understand that. Anyway, so many of you call your selfs Star Wars fans but it's surprising how many of you don't get that it's highly unlikely George Lucas will step on those fundamental principles of the movies just to make new ones, when that would pretty much ruin the whole point of the first 6 movies. As someone said here before, the sequels will likely add a new dark side user to the equation.
Let me recall what the Father said:
Anakin: Then why reveal yourselves to us?
The Father: Their are some who would like to exploit our power. The Sith are but one.
To me sith is like a religious culture. They are force users but live by certain rules (just like the Jedi) so unless the teachings are recorded somewhere then if the practitioners are gone so is the knowledge.
Any new villain that is a force user would most likely not be a sith unless they found the teachings and even if they did it would take a few generations of participants to get it somewhere close, so I just think they will be people strong with the force that don't have the proper teachings and fall easily (they may not even know using the force in certain ways is wrong - like chocking people to force them to answer for example)
One could argue that if anakin was born of the force there is no reason why another couldn't be born or like others mentioned an army of them, as that's the will of the force, but I still suspect the ST will be about the change of times, where Luke will die the last of the force users, something like when Merlin was the last of the magicians and after that the knowledge was lost. But it all depends on what the plans are for the series, whether these moves are at the end of the timeline or not.
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I think what Star Wars is, the essence and core, happens to be open to interpretation by each individual fan, irrespective of authorial intent. To me Star Wars is not the tragedy of Darth Vader, but a far more grand story of Sith Vs. Jedi, Good vs. Evil that crosses epochs and spans millenia.
The PT shows us a group of flawed Jedi who are cast down by their archnemisis, and the few remaining survivors scattered to the wind.
The OT shows us that the Jedi have come to a new understanding of the Force and they have decided to impart this knowledge upon their new hope. Armed with these teachings and an indomitable will the young Jedi overcomes his Sith enemies.
The Sith could easily return in the upcoming trilogy, and serve as a test to the newly reconstituted Jedi Order, proving how ephemeral peace truly is. If done well, I think the triumph of the New Jedi Order over the Sith would work very well thematically.
Balance of the Force, not balance of the Force-users. The Sith are not the dark side.
I don't see any evidence of this.
Star Wars IS the Tragedy of Darth Vader to George Lucas, who also said that there would never be another Star Wars movie, ever.
IMO, Star Wars is the story of the Skywalkers, while Vader is the central character for the prequels and the originals. Luke Skywalker though is the main character in the originals, the main hero.
Come to think of it, I can see how bringing back the Emperor might be tempting for them - didn't see the body, Macdermid could still play the character etc
I still hope it doesn't happen.
Not very familiar with the EU material, but there's nothing in the films that explicitly states that for Anakin to be The Chosen One it must also mean the permanent elimination of The Sith. There's a wealth of interpretations that could allow the "Anakin IS The Chosen One" theory to be true and the existence of The Sith to coexist.
Just as an example interpretation:
After Order 66 and the elimination of the Jedi, after the death of Old Ben Kenobi, the 'balance' of the force had shifted drastically to the dark side's favor - with only Yoda and not-even-a-proper-padawan Luke surviving, the clearly superior Vader and Sidious used the dark side daily, hourly, for years. Truly dark times. With the death of Yoda, the Jedi are down to only one - yet still two Sith remained. Dark side at that point is indisputably ascendant. Without Anakin's redemption, this could lead to an infinitely sustained dominance of the dark side of the force.
By the end of ROTJ, only Luke remains.... (so, for a brief period, the 'balance' per se would be temporarily skewed to the light side. but hey, give the next set of bad guys some time to catch up.... but eventually, years after the Battle of Endor, as new Jedis appear, new dark jedis will appear too (and why not eventually new Sith?) -- and it'd all be in (relative) balance, yet still a precarious balance, one which future generations of Jedis must continue to struggle to maintain.
Basically, Anakin took it from "infinite darkness" to "back to the status quo" -- restoring balance, not necessarily eradicating Sith forever.
Personally, I'm not a fan of making much of this explicit - retaining the mystery of the prophecy and why it's true for some Jedis (yet possibly not embraced by all of them) seems a better course.
I'd be in favor of new 'dark side' sects that rival or exceed the danger of the Sith in the next trilogy. It'd be very Joseph Campbellian of them to add further dimensions to the spiritual realms in the Star Wars galaxy. But, having some Sith around might be fun too.
Above all, I trust Michael Arndt. His choice will be great. Insanely great.
Star Wars got along just fine without any hints of a Chosen One prophesy before Lucas badly retconned one into the films in '99. It can handle yet another shift in focus.
I don't really understand why there would be a prophecy about Palpatine in the first place. If his defeat constituted "bringing balance to the Force", then what the heck did they call the thousand years (generations? years? which was it again? whatever.....) that the Jedi kept things peaceful? A twenty year blip of Sith oppression seems to pale in comparison.
Depends on the interpretation of balance. But a 20 year Sith oppression that doesn't get stopped by Luke/Vader could easily become a thousand year Sith oppression, with a galaxy ruled by superweapons manned by British space Nazis.
Hitler ruled for 12 years, and we remember those 12 years no matter how many years pass before or afterwards.
I don't have a clue about the prophecy but I don't think George Lucas does either. I don't think he knew where he was going with that. Kind of like the writers of "Lost". The Jedi thought the Sith were extinct so to them I don't see how they thought anything was OUT of balance.
The balance of the Force is not a balance of Force-users. Thus it can be balanced when there are zero Sith and a nonzero number of Jedi ( as we see in ROTJ ) or when there are two Sith and thousands of Jedi ( as it was prior to the Force becoming unbalanced toward the dark ).
The Sith are definitely coming back. If not right away than it will happen in the next movie. I would guess Plageuis, after Lucas put all that stuff in ROTS. I don't know how I feel about that but if i was a betting man,that's what I would guess happens.
Instead of using Plagueis they should use the Tenebrous nanovirus thingy. Luke could find himself defending the very future of Force use itself. I could get behind that.
This is an excellent interpretation as well, and a much superior one IMO, however, if this is true, then Anakin's killing of Sidious in ROTJ has no affect on the balance of the force, and, if that act did indeed fulfill the 'chosen one' prophecy, then whatever mechanics/reasons for this are not explicitly made in the film. Which suggests again that the future rebirth of the Sith is an independent question. Maybe they come back, maybe they don't, but, if they do, it doesn't necessarily negate the beliefs of those who believed Anakin fulfilled the 'chosen one' prophecy.
Kathleen Kennedy was the co-executive producer for Innerspace, so maybe Luke can take a miniaturized X-Wing on a fantastic voyage into the body of his sister, just like he always wanted.
To cure her of some Force-eating nano-virus, of course.
That does not follow. The Banite Sith of the film era, represented by Palpatine, have unbalanced the Force. This isn't a give-and-take. Accepting that the substitution of "Jedi/Sith head count" for "balance of the Force" is invalid does not mean you have to dump a central premise of Lucas.
No, if the Sith returned it would not undermine the integrity of the earlier part of the Skywalker saga. For starters, the prophecy was very vague, Anakin could have fulfilled it just by turning to the Darkside (and helping to wipe out the Jedi Order) or he could have fulfilled it by turning back to the light (and killing Darth Sidious.) It's not entirely clear.
One thing that is clear to me is that people need to stop equating Anakin to Jesus Christ, jesus that is such a lame comparison, the only way they are comparable is that they are both made up characters with zero basis in reality. Beyond that its just plain lazy to equate the two, unless in the SW universe there are now Anakinites who try to "convert" people to Anakinianity at that point I stand corrected.
If the sequel trilogy does have Sith in it, that would likely come in the form of one of Luke's former apprentice's falling to the Dark side, finding a Sith holocron, and attempting to learn the path to becoming a Sith.
Another very remote possibility is that Darth Plagueis returns, having fooled Darth Sidious into thinking he was dead (in 32 BBY), but just went into hiding for 60 or 70 years, depending on when Episode VII takes place. This idea is a little too "out there", but it would make absolutely certain the protagonists have a very bad*** villain to deal with in the ST.
Beyond that there may not be Sith in the ST and it could just be some Dark sider or a group of them that the new Jedi Order has to deal with.
Here's what we know about the prophesy; from TPM, we know it's about someone with a high midi-chlorian count and was conceived by them who will bring balance to the Force. From ROTS, we know that bringing this balance is done by destroying the Sith. We also learn that order 66 and Anakin joining the Sith left the Force "in darkness," which Obi-Wan's line suggests is the opposite of balance. So I don't really see what's so vague here.
Couldn't agree more! The miracle birth is straight out of Campbell; it's just a common mythological theme. See here: