main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

JCC If there is a God, then why is there evil and suffering?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    I just can't wrap my head around the fact that some people equate not believing in God with being evil.
     
  2. drg4

    drg4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2005
    "There is nothing to fear from those who do or do not believe in God. There is plenty to fear from those who do not believe in sin."

    --Chris Hedges
     
  3. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I agree with you 100% there.
     
  4. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    tell that to this guy.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Geez, I make one joke about the Sun and look what happens.
     
  6. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    The only thing that's mysterious about God is why supposedly intelligent people would want to believe in him.
     
  7. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    To put it simply in just selfish terms,
    I believe in God and when I die I go to heaven if he exists.
    I believe in God and when I die I don't go to heaven as he does not exist, but I die believing heaven awaits me.
    I don't believe in God and when I die I don't go to heaven.


    Rationally the option that gives me the biggest gain is believing in him. And if I don't believe in him what do I get? Nothing. There is no gain for not believing in God. Sure you could say I've 'accepted the truth' or some other bull. But it's all meaningless. Without God or an afterlife life has no meaning. It's just random happenstance, noise and furry signifying nothing. You exist, suffer, and die. What use is 'accepting the truth' then? What use is my own personal pride in 'not being a sheep' then? I'm nothing, I'm just a random blip in the cosmos that will be forgotten.

    Choosing not to believe in God does not benefit my life in any way. There are no positives from it.

    Better to believe in God and die with hope for what is to come, than not believe in God and accept the doom that awaits you.
     
  8. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Actually there is a big benefit to not believing. Since only get one life, and your time on this planet is very limited, you've got to make the most of things. So by not believing, you have more time to do things that are actually worthwhile. Believing is a waste of time.

    And "exist, suffer, die" is the way of life for everything on this planet, animals and plants included. That may be depressing, but I'd rather have a harsh truth than a comfortable lie.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  9. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    a heaven full of every christian ever actually sounds like hell. i choose to believe that there is a hell, but it's super awesome.
     
    jp-30 and JoinTheSchwarz like this.
  10. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    What am I missing by not believing? Not sleeping in Sunday morning? Drinking as much alcohol as I want? Having as much sex as I want? Even if I didn't believe in God those would still be wise decisions to make. The only difference between a me that believes in God and a me that doesn't is one wakes up Sunday morning and has hope, while the other sleeps in and goes the rest of his life knowing his existence is meaningless and only oblivion awaits him.

    I'd rather have the lie to be honest. Life without hope is not life, it is only existing. Better to live with a false hope that you will never realize to be false.
     
  11. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    why can't your hope be for happiness and contentment in your actual life?
     
  12. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Without God or an afterlife there is none. It's all meaningless. It's simply do as many things possible to activate the pleasure sensors in your brain before you die. There is no order, no purpose, no plan, no morality, no truth, no justice. All those things are simply human ideas to fight the realization that all is void and meaningless as we hurtle through chaos towards oblivion in an existence of pain and woe that we all would have been better off not being given. I can't give order to life, I can't give my life purpose, I can't do an of those things. I can think I have, but that's just lying to myself. And if I have to lie to myself about that then why not lie to myself and believe there is a God providing all those things? Why not believe there is an afterlife? Ultimately if I became an atheist I would end up right where I started again.
     
    Narutakikun likes this.
  13. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    religion is a human idea.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  14. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I don't mind Oblivion awaiting me. I mean, it's not the best Elder Scrolls game, but it's still pretty good.
     
    jp-30 and GenAntilles like this.
  15. GenAntilles

    GenAntilles Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2007
    What if it's the new Tom Cruise movie?
     
  16. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I'd much rather live the life I want and be happy while I can experience it than live my life according to what may or may not happen when I'm dead.
     
  17. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    According to Christians, rampant fornication, drugs, and rock music are Satanic and lead to hell. Ergo, Hell has people like Hendrix, Jim Morrison (who is still ****-faced), etc.

    Heaven has Bieber.

    Just saying, Hell sounds like a weekend with Hunter S Thompson in the desert and Heaven, anything Christian.

    With you on this one.

    Also, GenAntilles, what do you gain by not believing? Well, you're not living your life in fear and submission to an entirely fictional entity whose sole purpose is to set tests you can't possibly win. Yet, you defend him as a "loving God".

    It's your choice but why god? Why not Superman or Ganesh?
     
  18. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    The meaning of life is "eat, survive, reproduce". That's how it is with all species.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  19. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SFTC VII + Deadpool BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000
    I've always found it silly to have a firm belief either way about this... as I see it, it's impossible for anyone to know, and it's beyond silly to prove otherwise.
     
    Point Given likes this.
  20. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    You're right, it is impossible to know. But it is possible to look at the evidence and draw a reasonable conclusion based on that evidence. And that's all atheism is: a conclusion that there are no gods whatsoever, because that is what the current evidence supports. It's the exact same reason why people don't believe in unicorns, Santa Claus, leprechauns, or the Tooth Fairy.
     
  21. MandaloreYak

    MandaloreYak Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Oh a God convo. These are always fun.
     
    Alpha-Red likes this.
  22. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Wait, there's no Santa Claus either?!

    I guess I take a more agnostic approach than a purely atheistic one, because we simply can't know. My bigger beef is with Organized Religion of any kind than it is with the idea that there might be a god or heaven.

    Also, it's amazing that some people think there can be no joy or purpose in life if you don't believe in god. You can do good things for other people (and enjoy life to the fullest) independent of any fear you may have about being punished in the next life if you don't. If you do good for others so that you can get into heaven, you're kind of missing the point. So ironic.

    Also, some of the most moral people I've known were not very religious at all.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  23. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    There's a fourth option. What if there is a god, but you're worshiping the wrong one? In human history, there have been over 2700 individual beings recognized as a deity of some sort. When you think about the reasons why you don't believe in Zeus, Allah, Ra, Krishna, Ganesh, Vishnu, Xenu or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you'll understand why I don't believe in your god.
     
  24. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    If you are comfortable with placing arbitrary rules upon yourself about going to church, not drinking and grossly limiting sex, that's your business. But I wouldn't say that sleeping in on Sunday morning, or drinking and having sex responsibly without following biblical rules, could be considered "not making wise decisions."

    Exactly. I prefer doing the best I can with my life here--raising my kids to be decent well-adjusted human beings, doing my job well, enjoying my friends and just generally trying to be a decent human being myself--as opposed to constantly thinking about death and what happens afterwards. And if I die tomorrow I really won't care because I'll just cease to exist; I don't need to go somewhere else after my life on this Earth in order for my life on this Earth to mean something.
     
  25. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    [​IMG]