JCC If there is a God, then why is there evil and suffering?

Only when people go on and on about how awesome skiing is and that there will be some horrible consequence if I don't ski.

 

Yeah... ****ing people talking about things they enjoy. How dare they.

 

There is always ice-skating if skiing doesn't work for you. Give it a try!

 

"The mountain loves you! Why wouldn't you want to ski if the alternative is being away from the mountain's love?"

 

Oh come on... who talks like that? You're grasping here.

 

I am in this thread so I am not far from Harpie's love.

 

Hai bay bay. <3

 

Just wait until she turns you into a pillar of salt.

 

Canadians.

 

Then I would go well with french fries.

 

Is going skiing as a hobby a matter of belief? No. Therefore your comparison doesn't apply.

Yes, it is.

Since you can't phisically prove a deity's existence, you have three options: believe that it exists (theism), believe that it doesn't exist (atheism), and say that you dont know (agnosticism).

Again, another non appliable comparison. You can't prove God's inexistence. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

Atheism is a lack of belief in such and such. It is not a belief in itself.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence is a phrase used to endorse SETI. In the case of SETI we already have evidence of life in this Universe and that is ourselves. Religion of any sort that proposes to worship gods have no such examples.

 

If I told you there were two pink unicorns in the room with me, you wouldn't just take my word for it, would you? You'd want to see them for yourself. And if I couldn't provide proof that the unicorns were here, you would have no reason to believe me, would you?

That is the basis behind atheism. You can claim there's a god up in the sky, but since you can't back up that claim with any verifiable facts, no one has any reason to believe your claim. "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

And that skiing analogy is an accurate one:

Believing in a god = a belief
Going skiing = a hobby
Not believing in a god = not a belief
Not going skiing = not a hobby

 

I had a friend pull this same idea once. I asked him if god allowing 60 million people to die in world war 2 was his way of showing he exist and attempting to bring people closer to him? He said yes. I'm so glad to be an atheist.

 

Seriously... some atheists are just as intense and devoted as some hardcore born again, in your face Christians.

 

As I said earlier, I'm agnostic, but I have a very "live and let live" belief when it comes to god(s) and religion. I choose to stay away from religion, but I don't judge those who are religious... until they get in my face about it, really. I will, however, poke fun at "in your face" people--religious or otherwise.

 

Your Christians, after 2000 years of having to hear so much BS people are going to be bitter. Espeically people who don't believe in Gods.

 

Certainly not my experience. I grew up going to Methodist church every Sunday and to a tiny rural baptist church in the South during the summer. I loved those communities. But I can't remember a time when the doctrine made the slightest bit of sense other than the wonderful blessed are the poor parts.

For me this was the best post in the thread, one that resonates with my own views and history with Methodists. The history goes way back. My family tree includes generation after generation of Methodist ministers going back to the very first ministers ordained in North America.

The Good News is that Americans will slowly learn how to re-create secular versions of the kinds of communities that the dying mainline protestant traditions provided for my parents' generation, communities without all the supernatural nonsense. Even my son's swim club fulfills many of those functions as well as any church. We step in to help when someone gets sick, we organize charitable work, we provide a nurturing environment for children.

 

I'm agnostic and marrying an atheist. Neither one of us wants our hypothetical child baptized, even to keep the peace. But we're pretty much convinced that one or both of our mothers will probably do it behind our backs (mine has even hinted at an intention to do so). I think the biggest reason that bothers me is that both of them are normally pretty accepting of our rejection of religion. In fact, we're having the two of them officiate our wedding and have indicated that we do not want any spiritual or religious references anywhere in the ceremony and they are completely okay with that. But when it comes to a baby, who has no say in the matter, that same respect seems to be off the table.

Totally paraphrasing here, but I read something years ago that summed up why there is no agnostic extremism: "It's not like we're going burn a question mark on your lawn." I still want that on a t-shirt.

 

I'm an agnostic but I'm more leaning towards God not existing. Here's the thing that gets me. Lets say there is a God. Why does everyone always assume this all powerful being has our best interests at heart. Life on earth may be little more than an experiment. Maybe God's working on a little science project in the summer holidays and we're it. For the sake of argument lets say you're keeping some woodlice in a tank or something. If you drop something in the tank and kill a woodlouse the woodlice community may view it as evil and suffering and may ask for deliverance from their woodlouse God. Would you view it as evil and suffering or would you view it as little more than a regrettable mistake? You are effectively their God. You may not be all powerful but you have total control over their lives. You can decide whether they live or die. You can change their world. You can feed them or not feed them. You can remove them from your tank. You are in complete control but would you empathise with every single woodlouse? Probably not. Do you have their best interests at heart? Not really otherwise you'd let them go. Do you have a grand plan for every woodlouse? Beyond chucking them into your garden probably not. Would you grieve for the dead woodlouse? Probably not. You may feel sad and you may regret your carelessness but I don't think your sadness would last long. A minute or two at most. If a God does exist, is it so impossible that we are nothing more than God's woodlice?

 

The lack of belief in X implies that for that same person, X does not exist. To say that God does not exist is a belief.

No, it's a phrase used to show a fallacious reasoning.