1. MERRY "TALK LIKE A PIRATE" DAY! ARR!

JCC If there is a God, then why is there evil and suffering?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    People are still having sex.

    This AIDS thing's not working.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  2. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Missionary work reports corroborate what I said. And I have contact with some of them to know about it as well (and this was way before the Pope "allowed" it). But as soon as I find something online I'll leave it here.

    I said "the mere distribution is no solution". That gives the idea that as long as they use them they're safe (condoms are fallible), while people continue to have risky behaviour. Not only that, but many people in Africa believe the use of condoms decreases their manhood.

    Education is the key.

    People with HIV (or other similar disease) having sex is not a personal issue and should be our concern.
  3. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    he's probably right about sporadic condom distribution in catholic clinics. catholic charities in africa are appallingly and notoriously mismanaged so i doubt they have the organizational capacity to enforce that sort of policy
    JoinTheSchwarz likes this.
  4. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Atheism is not a claim; it is a rejection of a claim.
  5. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    Okay, I think we get it. For your atheism not being a belief, you sure focus a lot of your time and energy talking about it. You're pretty passionate about it, actually, which is perfectly fine--just own it. You don't believe that there is a god, and you're passionate about this belief; what's the big deal? Do you feel that you are showing some sort of fault or weakness by owning a particular belief?
    Jedi Merkurian, Blithe and Alexrd like this.
  6. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    True, but don't people often have sex quite a few times before finding out that they have HIV? Then they have to go around and inform everyone they've had sexual contact with that they might have the disease as well. Condoms could minimize the number of people who get infected. Of course, not having sex in the first place would guarantee no transmission of the disease, but 1) people don't abstain from sex and attempts to convince to do so are often unsuccessful and 2) there needs to be a second line of defense against STDs and pregnancies for those who don't abstain, and condoms are successful in this.
  7. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I would say his focus is on getting definitions right.
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Not to mention laughable.
    Blithe and Ender_Sai like this.
  9. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    Well, actually people do abstain from sex... but expecting everybody do to so is definitely laughable.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  10. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I never said that.

    "appallingly and notoriously mismanaged"? Care to clarify?

    The problem is that man they continue to do so.

    They could, but they don't (at least in sufficient numbers) due to lack of education.

    Same as above. You can't just distribute condoms. That's only half the job.
  11. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    actually you did say that you heard reports of condom distribution even when it was technically prohibited by the pope, God's living representative on Earth

    what would you call that if not poor management?

    as for clarifying, well i dont think i could have stated it any more clearly. any member of a secular NGO can tell you that faith based organizations are generally run to a lower standard
  12. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    the difference, and it's quite a distinct one, is that one of the two beliefs is actually positing the existence of something. frankly if you refuse to acknowledge the difference between the two types of "belief", then i don't really see much point pursuing this conversation any further.
  13. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    yawn
  14. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    The Pope never prohibited the distribution of condoms. He just didn't approve it as a solution. And the Pope is not God's representative on Earth.

    Misinformation on your part?

    And you say that based on...? Oh right, nothing (because there is nothing that supports that claim). It's just your opinion.
  15. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    yeah and his disapproval led to a systematic denial of that service. the pope isnt a bureaucrat. honestly are you just going to claim the opposite of everything i say at this point no matter what? the sky is blue. God exists.

    sorry i thought you were catholic. if you're not a believing catholic then yeah, he's not god's representative on earth. but if you're a practicing Catholic you probably shouldn't presume to begrudge the Pope his title "Vicarius Christi", which literally means "Representative of Christ". i dunno its up to you. bring it up at your next confession if you're curious

    i can't find any articles on it outside firewalled journals. but i can tell you from experience having worked in and studied the public sector that its just a known fact among people who work in NGOs. even in the united states theres a lot of malfeasance but its more common in the evangelical community than the catholic community here (american catholics are too busy covering up sex scandals to embezzle, i guess)
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Jan 27, 2013
    eht13 likes this.
  16. Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2012
    star 3
    I would agree with your friend then. Yes, it’s true while many people would have died; many could have been brought to Christ, and were! If the war wasn’t fought, so many Jews would have died. God is slow to anger and abounding in love. If there wasn’t a war, the Jews wouldn’t be free and could still be massacred. He could have just let them go, but what would the point of that be, what lesson could be learned from that? That people are evil? We already know that. Everything God allows is Just. And he was gracious in allowing a war to take place to save the Jews from death at the Nazi’s hands.
    I know you may be scratching your head at how God could be gracious by creating war, but you have to look at the bigger picture. To me, Christianity isn’t just a religion, it’s the truth, and it can apply for all generations. That is what I believe, and I don’t want to start an argument, I’m just stating my beliefs.
    I was at a Christian Teen Retreat with my church over the last few days, and I saw this video, showing how it can apply to all generations, and isn’t just a story of the past. Take a look.

    Remember, this is what I believe. I’m not trying to start an argument. Just a peaceful discussion. We are all entitled to our own opinions.
  17. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Or God was still angry at them for the whole Jesus thing, and let them die? It seems consistent with the God of the Bible, so why not?
  18. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    gracious in allowing a war to take place....WOW.

    Like I said, I'm so glad to be an atheist.
    RC-1991 and Ender_Sai like this.
  19. Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2012
    star 3
    Think of it this way, if you were a Jew getting massacured, wouldn't you want a war that could save you from so much torture? God works in mysterious ways.
  20. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    if you havent watched this you should. just astoundingly tacky.

    EVERYBODY WATCH IT
  21. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    I wouldn't give him credit for 60 million plus deaths. And there is so much backstory to how WW2 got started that it doesn't really help the "Evil Hitler makes war to kill all the Jews" arguement. Backstory that left many opportunities for your GOD to step in and twart a World War that ended up with 6 million Jews dead.

    If everyone would have played their cards right Hitler would have been nothing more than a prick dictator that hated Jews AND SOVIETS. That you condon this action by your god just so he can move the pieces to where he wants them, says a lot. Atleast Zeus and Odin came out and said they were ******* and didn't hide behind peace and love.
    Last edited by Jedi Merkurian, Jan 28, 2013
  22. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    Guys... when you're quoting somebody, could you trim it down to the person's last post that you're responding to? Having through scroll through a three foot long quote session is pretty obnoxious.
    Last edited by harpuah, Jan 27, 2013
  23. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Here's a serious question for the Christians:

    Why is it that Christians feel they can bludgeon nonbelievers with their beliefs, yet they act all butthurt when someone stands up and challenges those beliefs?

    Now, of course this doesn't apply to all Christians, but it is a pattern I have noticed among many of my Christian friends.
  24. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
  25. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    You may actually be on to something there.

    I have a pet theory about how the Founder of a religion lived and died has an effect on the collective psyche of the followers of that religion. Christ was executed for stating His beliefs; many Christians, as has been noted, have a persecution complex. The life of Mohammed was characterized by war and strife, and well…look at the news. IIRC the Buddha died of food poisoning when someone botched trying to prepare a delicacy for their honored guest, and you don’t really hear much about Buddhists causing a crap-ton of problems. Baha’u’llah died peacefully after decades of imprisonment and exile; most Baha’is I know display what I refer to as quiet endurance.

    I admit I’m painting with a really broad brush…