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ST If there's a female lead... is Disney going after the Hunger Games money/audience?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Jedi_Lantern, Oct 12, 2013.

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  1. Jedi_Lantern

    Jedi_Lantern Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 3, 2013
    Man I hope so =P~
     
  2. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    She was more protagonist than villain, but sure.
     
  3. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    Theron is an amazing villain that would be perfect. She totally made Snow White. It is really wild how she can be made into someone you couldn't even recognize, and be totally convincing at it..
     
  4. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2002
    You could just as easily ask "is Disney after the Transformers audience if they go with a younger male lead?" Let's face it, big PG-13 action franchises are usually made with a target audience in mind even though studios additionally want these films to have appeal outside the primary target as well. If this was a project aimed primarily at existing/long-time Star Wars fans, Luke and company would probably be the main characters again despite the actors being *gasp* old.
     
  5. Echo-07

    Echo-07 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 9, 2012
    I really like your posts in this thread. Just to expound on your thought in bold, however, I don't give GL a fail for introducing female secondary characters because he did that. I'd definitely give him a fail for NOT developing them. I wanted to see more of Ayla Secura, Aurra Sing and for a while I actually thought that Asajj Ventress would be the new Sith apprentice in ROTS. I think if anything GL missed opportunities there.

    As a male who grew up on the OT, loves the PT and is beyond excited for the ST I am all for more and stronger female characters and yes even protagonists. That said, I see the ST as being the start of a new cycle and a large ensemble that will eventually extend into 10-12 Episodes. To support this speculation -- JJ launched LOST which was an episodic saga steeped in mythology that featured several strong female protagonists. IMO E7 is like the first episode of LOST in which JJ will kick it off and eventually other directors will take over extending the series beyond Episode 9, which is what George always envisioned, an indefinite series.
     
  6. Chewgumma

    Chewgumma Chosen One star 7

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    Apr 14, 2009
    It's pretty depressing that the concept of a female lead in a summer blockbuster is still considered a trend for making money.

    The macho men movies that swarmed the cinemas in an attempt to make a buck off of the likes of Schwarzenegger and Stallone back in the 80's and 90's never faced such scrutiny. But having two or three productions with female leads in is a cynical cash grab...
     
  7. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    No matter what happens, SW sequels will somehow follow the whole "hero's journey" arc in one way or another. It's inevitable and almost necessary because it's what fantasy is all about. The twist will be in finding a new approach to the same beloved structure.

    I got a lot of inspiration from the Beyond: Two Souls promo (and I don't play video games btw). Why not have a female who already has a dark side to her and has no emotional control over her powers. She is the daughter of the Solos but does not know it because her identity has been concealed due to fear that she will be discovered and follow the same path as her grandfather. She is eventually discovered through Sith spirits or some dark side user, etc and her path to the dark side is assumed. However, unlike Anakin who started good and converted to evil, this young female starts off with a dark side but follows a path to the good side. On the way, she realizes her true identity has been hidden, which causes more rage before she sees the light. During this time, she becomes more and more vulnerable to the dark side and is seduced by an apparent "prince charming" type who is actually an agent of the Sith. She finally turns to her elusive uncle, Luke, for guidance. After confronting her own demons, she is able to reconcile with her parents. Just before declaring her forgivenness for seemingly "disowning" her for her own safety, her father, Han, sacrifices himself during the heat of battle to save her. Torn between a life of lies, her own struggles in controlling her powers, and reconciliation with her father which seems a little too little too late, our heroine becomes confused and distraught.
     
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  8. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon Former Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 15, 2010
    Sure. A story where Lucas decides that the protagonist for the ST is a female, as opposed to Disney saying "market research indicates... blah, blah, blah," and pushing to shape a character based solely on those grounds.

    Whoever is in the role, I want it to be because it's what the writer envisioned. Period. It's literally that simple. To suggest otherwise, at least when talking to me about my point of view on the topic, is to complicate the matter unnecessarily.


    Okay, now you're purposely twisting what I said, and I don't care for that. I said that the quote was insulting to me on two fronts. One, that a female lead would only be considered as a means of pulling in the girls market, and second (and separately), that Disney says that whatever they do, the boys will come. I never implied that the my concern over the "whatever" means a female lead. Rather, it's generally bothersome to me that this quote suggests a larger, over-arching attitude where this company, newly in charge of the franchise, feels that they are free to do anything they darn well please, no matter what it is, and that whatever quality product they deliver, we, as the audience (men and women, boys and girls alike) will blindly follow, lapping it up and asking for seconds, simply because it bears the Star Wars name. Of course having a female "lead" is not an "issue" that would turn me off from watching and enjoying the films. I never suggested that it would be.
     
  9. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon Former Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 15, 2010
    I agree. Which is one of the reasons why the quote attributed to the higher-ups I referenced is so disconcerting to me. It literally said as much. Again, my hope is that it was either fabricated, or taken out-of-context.
     
  10. Chewgumma

    Chewgumma Chosen One star 7

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    Apr 14, 2009

    That's not the entirety of my point though. I was driving at the fact that not too long ago ago movies all had a specific image of a white, toned action star that were obviously cast for no reason other than a cynical attempt to appeal to as broad a demographic as possible. Nobody would think twice about it. It was just part of the status quo and everyone accepted it. But now execs occasionally look into using a female lead it's a practice that people find concerning. Why the sudden outrage over the practice?

    The only reason for it to cause any upset is if there was a change to the story and that it was detrimental to it. And I just don't believe that the casting of a female lead automatically has a detrimental effect on a story.
     
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  11. JediGirl_Angelina

    JediGirl_Angelina Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    Jan 12, 2003
    The six films always had been more "ensemble cast" than focusing on one hero alone, I think the ST will continue that tradition.
     
  12. SuperPersch

    SuperPersch Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 25, 2004
    For the record, I don't think the OP was out of line for having concerns about this. It's completely valid. I think that Disney/LFL/Bad Robot would have to do an awful lot wrong to make it feel like a cash grab from the Twilight demographic, however. But seeing as JJ has a history of kickass female leads that don't feel exploitative or shoe-horned, I have faith that it can work beautifully. I am a huge fan of the female protagonist idea. I would love Luke to have a daughter, and I would love to see the Skywalker cycle continue around in this way. It can be a lot that's the same, but a lot that's different, and none of that will have much to do with the protagonist's gender.
     
  13. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon Former Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 15, 2010
    I agree, but just as it is felt that casting a "white, toned star" was "obviously a cynical attempt to appeal to a demographic," perhaps we shouldn't be surprised when some are suspicious of a conglomerate's motivations, no matter what the particular issue is?

    Personally, I wouldn't have batted an eye or given it a second thought, were it not for said quote which gives the only reason for eyeing, in this case, a female lead, as an attempt at drawing in a specifically targeted demographic. The fact that I haven't seen a Disney-produced SW product means that I have less ammunition to tell myself that market research and the bottom line is not the company's overriding factor in decision making. And like I said, I would have been just as unhappy, had the quote said something along the lines of "the only reason we're pushing for Luke's son to be the lead is because according to our numbers, this is the best way to grab on to an untapped sector of the market." And I want to see Luke's son take the lead.

    Of course not. I cannot speak for others, but to me, the point isn't about gender, rather the possibility of altering a writer's intent solely for commercial aspirations. As I stated before, I feel that when what should be artistic decisions are made, first and foremost, on the basis of the bottom line, it compromises the final product.
     
  14. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    I will say this. As an 8-year old when ANH came out, I was somewhat embarrassed to have the Princess Leia action figure despite being essential to my collection. Not sure how that would translate to nowadays, but would young boys who are the primary new audience of SW have trouble with a female action figure?
     
  15. Jedi_Lantern

    Jedi_Lantern Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 3, 2013
    I just want to say that after thinking about things... I really don't care if the star is a male or female


    I usually like side characters the most anyways
     
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  16. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    I don't think it would be a cash grab or even a dire attempt to attract females. It would be a different twist and something new. Having a female, if done right, could show a different emotional angle to the light side/dark side issue. Not to make the female weak emotional, but females do approach things from a different angle so it could open a door to something different on a story telling basis.
     
  17. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon Former Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 15, 2010
    I agree that it's a hard thing to pull off in a convincing, thoughtful and entertaining manner, which, unfortunately, is the main reason I won't allow myself to think it's something the filmmakers will even attempt.
     
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  18. Big Bad Yoda Daddy

    Big Bad Yoda Daddy Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 8, 2000
    First of all, Dasan - hear hear!

    If you feel that Dani from GoT is a cash in - you don't get her character.
    The Hunger Games using a female isn't a cash-in either. Sure, it gets the female audience. Know why? Because just about every other hero that comes even close to Campbell's formula is male. When Suzanne Collins sat down to write The Hunger Games, I'm sure she wasn't thinking "Gee, I'll get more money if I write this about a girl," she was thinking, "I'd like to prove that a girl can be a strong and valid heroine." (If you've read the series - she actually does cash in with Mockingjay, and the difference is jarring.)

    If Star Wars goes with a female lead, I will be ecstatic. I have daughters, and there just aren't that many strong female characters for them to emulate. Star Wars is forever, and Star Wars is for everyone. The character of Leia shows that, in the Star Wars universe, women can be just as independent and strong as men. We've had a male lead for six movies - a female lead for three (still making Star Wars male dominated by 60% of the movies,) isn't a cash in, it's realistic.

    Start getting concerned then, friend. Disney dropped four BILLION on this property, and they didn't do it because somebody was willing to pay any price to see the old gang again. ALL the motivations behind this move are based solely on commercial interests. Luckily, producing quality is a commercial interest, so I remain unconcerned.

    I'm a fella, and I absolutely will go see it regardless. Pretty sure everyone in here will. Just because you find it insulting, doesn't make it untrue. Let's put it this way. Were you upset when Sam Jackson was cast as Nick Fury? I mean, if ever a demographic were put in just for marketing, surely it's that one! I thought it was great. I mean, sure, Nick Fury wasn't black - but Sam Jackson did a great job playing him. Not to mention, the whole series is so white-guy-centric that it's just a little bit insulting that we really only have one minority cast member. (Unless we count the Hulk's green-ness.) Putting a black guy in a historically white guy's role was a marketing move. One that, I felt, not only didn't negatively impact the movie, but also had the positive side of making the group of characters just a little bit more believable.

    Ever written a novel or screenplay? I've written three novels, and the gender only mattered for one of the protagonists. I could go change Liam to Lisa and Annabel to Adam right now, and it wouldn't affect either story in the slightest. My original vision never survives the finished product - and as we know, Lucas isn't immune to this either. (If you haven't been reading The Star Wars comic series - go pick it up. It's great!)

    The Twilight demographic isn't flocking to Twilight because of the female protagonist. They're flocking to it because of the ridiculous romance that attracts that crowd. To argue that casting a female lead is pandering to that audience by virtue of vagina is probably insulting to just about every female here. It's understandable that you would bring up Twilight (and why others bring up Hunger Games) to showcase their concerns about a female heroine - it's because you just can't think of any other blockbuster movies with female protagonists. You know which demographic Star Wars would be trying to hit by casting a female lead? The demographic of young females who aren't simpering morons and just want a strong woman to look up to. A far cry from the Twilight crowd.
     
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  19. SuperPersch

    SuperPersch Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 25, 2004

    I cite Twilight because it was mentioned at the topic's inception. I completely understand what is bringing people to the theater to see those movies, for better or worse. I don't think it has anything to do with Bella being a girl. Nor do I think the draw of Hunger Games is because Katniss is female, either. At least, that's not what I took away from the first film.

    In fact, in my own films I tend to have a female protagonist 80% of the time (I would estimate) and it's never because I need my lead to have a vagina.
     
  20. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon Former Manager star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 15, 2010
    Well, there you go, you said it for me. :p

    Well, of course it doesn't make it untrue. I take your meaning, but that doesn't mean I have to like being viewed that way by Disney (if the quote that got my panties in such a twist was even accurate).

    As to "Nick Fury," was it? I'm afraid I couldn't say. But I do know that if Sam Jackson was cast for a character traditionally depicted as Caucasian, I'd hope that it was because he was the best man for the job, and not because he's African American (and I'd venture to guess that Sam might feel the same). I know, I'm naïve.

    Just to be clear, again, gender itself is not the issue to me. It's about maintaining the integrity of the story and staying true to the writer's vision in a more broad sense.

    But to the point you've made, you, as the author, may have written a character who could potentially be gender-interchangeable (is that a word?), but who's to say that this is true of Lucas' protagonist, anyway? If, for example, you had written a study of the dynamic between a mother and her son, and your editor decided that, no, market research dictates that the story will instead be about a young man, his journey, and what have you, it would make a difference, yes? It's not the best example, but it goes a little bit towards illustrating my point, I think.
     
  21. Jedirush2112

    Jedirush2112 Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2013
    Actually I don't think the ST will have a Female Hero. It will be more like Harry Potter or the OT. There will be possibly 3 main characters, probably two male and one female of nearly the same age. This allows for the audience to connect with different personalities. What I though would be interesting would be if they are going to have the Main 3 back, would be that Han, Chewie and Lando gets killed off as martyrs early in Episode VII, Luke turns to the dark side leaving Leia and her brew to defend the galaxy against her brother. This adds a new amount of tension to the entire saga. Leia left undefended, needs to save her brother from the dark side or Sith that's controlling him, protect her children and keep the republic from falling to the remnants of the empire.

    Now that said, I don't mind a female protagonist at all. It will be a welcomed site.
     
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  22. Jedi_Lantern

    Jedi_Lantern Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 3, 2013
    For a guy who writes screenplays big bad yoda daddy really struggles with reading comprehension

    I NEVER said Dany and Katniss' characters are cash-ins. I said MODELING a NEW FEMALE LEAD for EPISODE VII BASED ON the rising popularity of character arch-types Dany and Katniss represent would be cashing in on Disney's part

    If you keep ignoring what I'm saying to twist my words, I will put you on my ignored user list. Your one and only warning
     
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  23. Big Bad Yoda Daddy

    Big Bad Yoda Daddy Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 8, 2000

    Oh no! Anything but that! Save me from such an awful punishment! :rolleyes:

    Let's take a look at what you said:
    "but if it's an attempt to cash-in on trends like the Hunger Games or Twilight (or Dani from GOT)"

    Sure, you could argue that your words say what you later said - but your post was ambiguous at best. For example, this Master's Degree-Speech/Debate Coach-English Teacher sees the phrase "cash in on trends like HG or Twilight" to mean that they are cashing in on trends in the way that the franchises you listed were cashing in. My reading comprehension is fine, thank you very much, it's your phrasing that sucks.

    I, on the other hand, mentioned that I wrote novels. Before you talk about reading comprehension, you might want to Google something about people in glass houses and stones.
     
  24. SuperPersch

    SuperPersch Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 25, 2004
    Both of you are being stupid, so shut up.
     
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  25. LawJedi

    LawJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 11, 2009
     
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