Speculation If this is Episode VII-IX - it MUST feature the old cast

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by clone3131, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I was saying the same thing in another thread and took a lot of crap for it. Means of storytelling are flexible but people get very locked into their ideas of how things should be. Even Star Wars has already established that the story can jump forward in time, and I think it could handle an even longer jump if the story dictated it.
  2. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 1, 2012
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    Read Foundation, each chapter has a two or three generation jump in time.
  3. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 12, 2012
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    Actually that is exactly what he did....
  4. Mystery Roach Chosen One

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    Mar 10, 2004
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    No because Lucas clearly stated that 7-9 were the end of the trilogy [of trilogies], so after that I think they'll want to get some distance from the rest of the saga so that the audience knows for sure that it's a new story.
  5. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Ummm.... [face_plain]

    To be honest, though, despite the fact that the Foundation series makes large jumps in time, there's an arc to the whole thing; that is, the Foundation serves a purpose, it aims to achieve a goal to a problem more-or-less set up in the beginning of the story. I can't see Star Wars having that (unless some retconning takes place and Anakin is brought back). Herbert's "Dune" might be a better comparison, as that story makes several very large jumps (several millennia at some points) and also doesn't have a overall arc.
  6. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 12, 2012
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    I see your point, and I think I would agree with it. I think Star Wars could still pull it off with some hard work. Whether or not they should is another debate all together. My main point was to point out that the original posters idea of storytelling was rather close minded. To assume large jumps in timeline cannot keep a story together and cohesive seems a bit odd to me. granted the foundation series got rougher near the end largely because Asimov had major writers block on how to end the whole thing. Him dieing didn't really help the situation either.

    I must confess i have yet to read Dune. I intend to though.
  7. clone3131 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2004
    star 4
    ^^^^

    Right. Thats what I'm saying. The theme of Foundation and his books jump on a consistent basis. That is the point of his book(s), to jump.

    That is not the way Star Wars is being told. To have a 9 part story tell one story for 6 chapters, then jump to another story just doesnt make any sense - unless you somehow reference back to it at the end.

    "Its like Poetry, it rhymes...." - GL
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  8. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 12, 2012
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    I follow you. I still think it is possible. To say "MUST" just makes it difficult to listen imo. Whenever a fan demands a requirement for a film they set themselves up for potentially devastating disappointment. I have faith they can make it work either way. They have a story, and know what they are doing. While I hope that includes the big three I am not about to demand that be necessary to make it work.
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  9. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    IMO, you could create such an overall narrative either if balance to the Force wasn't fully restored after all, and Anakin will need to be brought back form the dead somehow (i.e., a retcon), or if there's some really important plot point that having to do with the notion that the Force is now balanced.... but I don't see either of these happening.


    "Dune", too, gets rougher towards the end. But it's very interesting nonetheless. "Star Wars" has taken a lot of inspiration from Dune (my understanding is that Herbert at one point considered suing Lucas). If you're really interested, I'd say skip the attempts at bringing the first book to the screen for now, and just go straight to the novels.
    Another very cool (and more recent) "space opera" series is Dan Simmons' "Hyperion" cantos. It also makes a few big jumps (but for very different reasons). Well worth the read--it has a more "literary" approach than most of the other work in this genre.
  10. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 10, 2012
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    "No because Lucas clearly stated that 7-9 were the end of the trilogy [of trilogies], so after that I think they'll want to get some distance from the rest of the saga so that the audience knows for sure that it's a new story."

    Why would Disney want the audience to think of it as a new story? They want to make money off the Star Wars brand and the best way to do that is use characters from the previous movies. To just suddenly jump decades and have all new characters, doesn't make financial sense and major film series rarely, if ever do it. In fact, they usually try as hard they can to shoehorn characters from the previous installments. Not one hugely successful franchise has had movies with none of the same characters as previous installments. The closest would be Star Trek, but didn't they have a "passing of the torch" film? I don't really know.

    A good example, strange as it sounds, would be the Hobbit. That wouldn't make as much as money if it didn't have Gandalf, Gollum, and Bilbo and whoever else Peter Jackson decides to throw in there.
    Last edited by kubricklynch, Dec 10, 2012
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  11. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 12, 2012
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    Thanks for the recommendations. I will look into it.
  12. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

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    I can think of at least one film series that successfully jumps a couple of decades in the middle and introduces a whole new main cast. [face_plain]


    You're aware that "The Hobbit" and "Lord of the Rings" are based on novels, right? Published in 1937 and 1954-55, respectively. Jackson isn't "bringing Bilbo, Gollum and Gandalf back," they're right there in the novel.
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Dec 10, 2012
  13. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 10, 2012
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    I can think of at least one film series that successfully jumps a couple of decades in the middle and introduces a whole new main cast. [face_plain]

    And that would be?? Keep in mind I'm talking about characters, not just recasting. And people aren't saying decades, they are saying 100 or 1000 years.

    You're aware that "The Hobbit" and "Lord of the Rings" are based on novels, right? Published in 1937 and 1954-55, respectively. Jackson isn't "bringing Gollum and Gandalf back," they're right there in the novel.

    Obviously I know this, that is completely irrelevant to my point. My comment about Jackson was related to rumors of him trying to include Legolas or whoever.
    Last edited by kubricklynch, Dec 10, 2012
  14. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 12, 2012
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    Something that many say will hurt him amongst fans of the novels. Legolas makes slight sense. Some of the others are a little sketchy though. Point being, return of characters for the sake of returning character does not automatically grant success. At times it can be a hindrance. That being said I am thrilled for the Hobbit and realize it will still likely be very successful. There will be parts like this that will nag at me though and keep it from refraining a higher level of perfection in my mind.

    This thread isn't about The Hobbit though :p
  15. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 10, 2012
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    "Something that many say will hurt him amongst fans of the novels. Legolas makes slight sense. Some of the others are a little sketchy though. Point being, return of characters for the sake of returning character does not automatically grant success. At times it can be a hindrance"

    That is absolutely true. But nothing automatically grants success. The next Star Wars movie could be amazing or terrible regardless of when it is set. You could make an amazing Star Wars movie set 1000090000909 years later. But is it logical to assume Disney would do that? I think not.
  16. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 12, 2012
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    That has been my exact point from the beginning. The OP said the only way to have success was for the big three to return. It goes both ways. Neither avenue automatically grants success or failure. I do agree a huge timeline jump is unlikely from Disney though.
  17. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
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    Star Wars. o_O


    I haven't heard anything about Legolas being in there, and that wasn't clear from your post to me, TBH. But anyway, I obviously agree that the ST will make more money when some old characters come back. As has been discussed many times here, if we go by the old Lucas interviews, the most likely scenario is that they will have roles similar to that of Obi-Wan in the OT.

    Side note: Disney isn't making these movies, Lucasfilm is. Based on Lucas' treatments, no less.
  18. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 10, 2012
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    Star Wars? The prequels had R2, 3P0, Vader, Kenobi, Yoda, Palpatine, Luke, Leia, Chewy, Boba Fett, Tarkin, and Jabba the Hutt.
    Last edited by kubricklynch, Dec 10, 2012
  19. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    "I haven't heard anything about Legolas being in there, and that wasn't clear from your post to me, TBH. "

    I don't think he is actually going to be, it was probably just a rumor. But I believe he is including some LOTR characters that weren't in the Hobbit novel.

    But you don't see them adapting Tolkien works that are set hundreds of years earlier with totally different characters, as I believe at least parts of the Silmarillion are.
  20. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

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    Oct 1, 2012
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    "Main cast."
  21. clone3131 Force Ghost

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    Feb 11, 2004
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    Great discussion everyone, this is what I was hoping for!


    correct me if I'm wrong, but the Hobbit is a prequel to LoTR? So, its like the PT in this universe. Where, the story still was wrapped around Anakin. In Hobbit/LoTR it still wrapped around the Ring and the Wizard dude and taking an adventure.

    The issue would be like if you made 3 LoTR movies, then in the 4th, you had it LoTR 4 and had it 100 years later.

    Maybe that would work, but you still would need to explain to the audience what happened in that missing time...

    -C
  22. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    The point is the prequels weren't set hundreds of years before the OT, and the ST won't be hundreds of years after.
    It isn't fair to compare the casting for the prequels to the sequels because the prequels are set earlier, therefore making it impossible to use the cast from the originals.
  23. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 10, 2012
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    Also, you were the one who said main cast. I never said that. The post you were responding to was me saying they won't have all new characters.
  24. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    IMO, the new trilogy should feature just a few characters from the OT, along with new ones, the same way that only some characters from the PT continued on into the OT.
  25. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    The idea is that R2-D2 and C-3PO will be in all movies, so there'll be at least some overlapping minor characters regardless of how far in the future the ST will be set. Anyway, Star Wars is a 6-story saga now that midway jumps several decades to feature a whole new main cast; which order you view them in doesn't even matter here as it jumps regardless.

    Just for the record, I'm neither hoping for nor anticipating a jump more than several decades, based on the old Lucas interviews where he claims Luke Skywalker will be in the ST to have an Obi-Wan-like role.