"If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone. I cannot interfere." Why not?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Crazy_Old_Kermit, Oct 18, 2006.

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  1. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    What... are you calling Obi Wan a liar?
  2. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Maybe he's a little confused in his old age. Years of living alone does that to you :p
  3. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    Yeah, he wasn't. But that's not what Obi-Wan says anyway:

    It's "He was the best star-pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior" in ANH without referencing a specific time
    and "When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him" in RotJ.

    and both are true


    get your quotes correct, people :p
  4. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
  5. Whiteley79 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2006
    star 3
    Well, he kinda was, wasnt he? When obi first met him in episode 1 he had to have been told that anakin won the podrace on the boonta eve. The only human who can do it is a nine year old kid. Then during the battle of naboo he did what the other pilots couldn't: he flew into the hanger bay while dodging all the machinery and closing doors and such and blew up the main reactor. Were I obi, I would have said the same thing to luke.
  6. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    The podrace was the first ever race he even finished. So it's more likely that was a fluke rather than skill. If he was "the best", he'd at least have finished another race :p

    And blowing up the ship was also a fluke. Yes, the force might have been at work, but it's no evidence he was the best in the galaxy :)
  7. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    "There is no such thing as luck" :p
  8. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    Exactly.


    TLJ Edit: You need to watch what you say to or about other people here.
  9. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    No need for personal jibes [face_plain]

    When Obi first met Anakin, he'd only FINISHED one podrace. Hardly something to boast about.

    And if it was the force that caused him to destroy the ship, let's remember he didn't deliberately tap into it. For all intents and purposes, it was a fluke. Either that or it's his midichlorians that are the best pilot in the galaxy.

    Anakin did not use skill to destroy the ship. He didn't even mean to fire the cannons! His only skill was in not getting shot down - something which many other (non-Jedi) pilots managed
  10. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    but this is all moot, as nobody ever claimed he was the best pilot in the galaxy at age 9 ;)
  11. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Are you talking about the difference between when you first "meet" someone and when you first "know" them?
  12. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    Sorry, I was trying to over-the-top-insult to the point of making myself looking asinine for the hopefully humorous benefit of anyone reading it.

    I like, couldn't have really meant it.
    But I'll watch it from now on.
  13. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2004
    star 4
    Many reasons, first being that Vader could not know about the path to immortality incase he exploits it to reign in years to come. Second, Luke was abandoning his training to face Vader, Obi Wan would not bail him out. Whatever the consequence, it was the result of Luke not following his masters teaching. Third, there would be nothing he could do to help him. Obi wan was no match for Vader and Luke would have to learn how to defeat him himself, they would teach him the force and how to use it as an ally but other than that there was nothing else they could do, it was Luke's destiny and he had to go about it his own way. He has too much of his father in him, he is arogant and thinks he is unstoppable, they weren't about to crowd him like they did with Anakin.
  14. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    I found it funny the sulky way Luke tells Ghosty-Obi-Wan "I understand," afterwards.
  15. skyysoblue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2005
    star 2
    The meaning may be a little deeper....Luke's real task was to be able to turn Vader back from the dark side, something he had to want to do on his own. Obi Wan could not help him with that. He may be able to help luke fight or escape. But in order for Luke to develop feelings he had to be "alone." If Luke had just gone and killed Vader with Obi Wan' hope, then there would have been nobody powerful enough to kill the emperor.
  16. SLASHAXL Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2005
    star 2
    Luke skywalker had more potential than the emperor and would have killed him eventually, i say this in the same way that anakin would have become more powerful than the emperor. However id say luke would have needed about another 5 - 10 years of experience to be up to the emperors standards

    As for Obi-wan not interferring, this is more to do with Lukes jedi trials. In order for a padawan to become a jedi knight they must face their own fears. In lukes case this was Darth Vader. Luke was a jedi knight in ROTJ, but not a Jedi master. He probably became a master at a later stage. He was the most experieced force user still alive in the galaxy so in that respect he could probably take the title of master jedi.

    In the ROTS novel, yoda tells Obi-wan that an old friend has learned the path to immortality and yoda states later in that conversation that through training they could become a physical presence once more after death. This would suggest that not only would they be visible but they could possibly have a physical impact.

    It is strange that they didnt appear on the death star when the emperor attacked luke, perhaps they could sence Vader turning or perhaps yoda and obi-wan had forseen it.

    Finally, the sith were not able to learn the path of immortality. I forget the exact quote from the ROTS novel but yoda states that its because the sith think inwards only of themselves. Anakin became immortal after he seized to be Darth Vader and let go of his hate. And returned to the Lightside.
  17. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    Too much reading hurts my head.
  18. DarthDubya05 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2005
    star 4
    i always thought of it as a Test. since Luke is so confident that he can face Vader, Obi-Wan lets him.
  19. skyysoblue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2005
    star 2
    If yoda could not defeat the emperor with all his training and experience, what makes anyone think Luke could have ever done it on his own?
  20. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    Oh sure.

    "Master Yoda. The boy needs to learn patience. Perhaps having the weight of the fate of the future of the whole galaxy on the outcome of his confrontation would be a good enough test?"

    "One taco short of a combo plate are you".
  21. Han-my-boogie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2005
    star 1



  22. Crazy_Old_Kermit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 1
    Granted, this is from the original "Revenge of the Jedi" script, but something interesting to consider during Lucas's early thought process.

    88. HAD ABBADON ? THE TOMB?S PRISON

    Luke lies unconscious on a small island in the middle of a hot lava lake. A hot wind blows across his face and wakes him. He looks around at his hostile surroundings and suddenly becomes aware of another person sitting behind him. He turns on the intruder with Jedi speed. The shrouded figure doesn?t move or even look up.

    LUKE
    Ben?

    Slowly, the hooded figure looks up, revealing his face. It is Ben Kenobi in the flesh.

    BEN
    I could no longer stay in the netherworld.

    LUKE
    But Yoda said?

    BEN
    ?that I would become one with the Force and choose not to return to the material world? That your anger prevented me from?

    LUKE
    But I?m not angry?not anymore?I understand why you didn?t tell me about my father. I do.

    BEN
    I know. And I am here to help you destroy the Emperor, and?your father.

    LUKE
    I can?t.

    Suddenly Yoda appears beside Ben.

    YODA
    You can and you will?I in the netherworld, and Obi-Wan at your side. Help you we will.

    So the inability for Obi-Wan to appear in "The Empire Strikes Back" is probably a decision he is making all on his own. I am concluding this mainly because of Lucas's original storyline for it's sequel and the preceeding passage in particular.

    I do find the "Revenge of the Jedi" passage to be very cheesy and scattered, but I can't help trying to figure out why Obi-Wan would completely shut himself off from Luke during his experience at Cloud City. Perhaps the baptism by fire was what Luke needed in a sense to take the next step towards being a Jedi Knight. It's just that Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't realize that their lack of intervention was actually a better choice than intervening.
  23. Veloz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2004
    star 6
    I think that Obi Wan wanted Luke to make his choice knowing he would be doing this on his own and learning about the importance of making those choices and the repercutions they can have (that's where Anakin failed imo).

    Finally, dont u think Obi Wan's presence would have angered Vader even more? not to mention it would kinda let the cat out of the bag about the force ghosties ;)

    [face_peace]
  24. Jamiebacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2003
    star 4
    Netherworld...

    That bugged me in ROTS. Sounds pixie-ish.
    Come children, let us all disrobe and float to the Netherworld!
  25. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    I wonder if Obi-Wan feared that Luke would discover the truth about Vader's identity. When Yoda found out that Luke knew, his first reaction was, "Unfortunate."
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