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If you could change 3 things about TPM.....

Discussion in 'Archive: The Phantom Menace' started by Slayyyyyy, Feb 5, 2004.

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  1. Jedi_Learner

    Jedi_Learner Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Here are my own changes:

    1. I agree with Slayyyyyy here that the Gungan Battle near the end of the movie should of been less cartoony. Jar Jar could of shown more of his mature side like he did when talking to Queen Amidala on Courscant. Showing some fear in his eyes when the order to retreat comes could of helped this battle emotionally.
    2. A better explanation to Midichlorians or more time would of helped my fragile little brain. I'm still slightly confused.
    3. Show a scene where we see the Naboo Citizens suffering in the camps of the Trade Federation.
     
  2. TashaYar

    TashaYar Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2004
    2. A better explanation to Midichlorians or more time would of helped my fragile little brain. I'm still slightly confused.
    3. Show a scene where we see the Naboo Citizens suffering in the camps of the Trade Federation.


    These are very good points! I found the Midichlorian thing very odd...it helped to watch the DVD with Lucas' commentary, but I'm still not buying it. It took the whole mystery of the Force away from me.

    And yes, the whole Naboo suffering thing wasn't explained at all - was it really happening, or was it a ploy to get the queen to sign the treaty?
     
  3. Holy_Ben_Kenobi

    Holy_Ben_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2004
    THREE!? Only THREE?!

    1. Cut out extraneous characters, i.e. Panaka, Handmaidens, Sio Bibble, Qui-Gon Jinn, Chancellor Valorum (IMHO, Palpatine should've already been Chancellor), and give their lines to one of the other main characters.

    2. Get rid of Midichlorians

    3. Should've made Jedi more like Lucas had originally envisioned them; not only with lightsabers, but with laser pistols, and personal body shields. We even have the McQuarrie to prove this.... :)

    Can I throw in three more? :)

    1. Explain what the Federation was up to a little better, and make the droids more threatening. They were a joke.

    2. Jar Jar should've been a more capable character on par with Chewbacca--warrior-like--and if Lucas ABSOLUTELY needed a comic character, he could've created Jar Jar's comical little cousin, Winky (I know, this contradicts my first #1).

    3. Darth Maul. Improve him. He was deadly, but he should've been "terminator" in his pursuit of the princess... er, I mean elected Queen.

     
  4. MyEternalRest

    MyEternalRest Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2002
    I'm going to play TPM appologist on this one.
    *deep breath*
    Older Anakin
    Anakin being older than he was would only create more problems such as why was he allowed to be trained when the standard was to train with Yoda for about 10 years before being taken as an apprentice and him allowing to be trained was a major risk taken by Yoda as it was. One could just say that they age for apprentiship could be raised to that it would've been acceptable, this however for me would detract from the relationship between Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Because then they would've only been together about ten years as compared to twenty(assuming that Obi-Wan was 29 in TPM). Because having spent twice as much time with Qui-Gon than Yoda shows how significant Qui-Gon's death was.

    Plus Anakin being so young allowed for the longest gap in time between the movies, 10 years. 10 years for thoughts of his mother to burn into him and scorch any chance of being psychologically stable (I don't mean insane, just that he had issues) that he had and been given ample time for his inability to adapt be branded into his personality so much, that the horror Anakin felt when his mother died in his arms would then be more clear and thus why Anakin was so traumatized that he killed the tuskens would likewise be something more understandable. In Anakin there was 10 years of pent-up frustration at not being allowed to see his mother, and finally when fate finally and unmistakably says ?no? forbidding him to be with her, he reacts in the way that he does.

    The point of this story is to show how a good kid becomes a monster. Starting as a teenager, he would already have a kind of edge to him that wouldn?t have been the greatest place to start the tale of his fall from grace from. Being as young as he had been, he was still able to remain blissfully ignorant to the unfortunate situation he was in that a teenager would?ve already seen by then. Once again adding to his innocence.

    Anakin?s Virgin Birth
    This is the most obvious nod to the messiah that Anakin will prove to be once he steps out of his own personal Garden of Gethsemane and does what he was born to do. In choosing a virgin birth we not only automatically get the messiah qualities of Anakin seeded early on in the movie instead of waiting until hearing of the prophecy towards the end on Coruscant. Also a reason for the Virgin Birth was not having to explain the reasons why Ani?s father was also able to go unnoticed for the duration of his lifetime. Because then we have two incredibly powerful Force users not sensed by the Jedi for a lifetime+ten years?and why did Anakin?s father allow his family to be in slavery when he had this magnificent power. We would have to have our questions answered as to the events surrounding his demise which Shmi may not have known of. Thus adding to the questions that already had to be answered in the PT.

    Midichlorians
    I thought they were explained clearly enough. GL needed some way of measuring Force potential so that Anakin could be seen for the future ?Super Jedi? he would later be without the possibility of an explanation that perhaps he is just ahead for his age. Which is more convincing: ?The Force is unusually strong with him.? Or ?Not even Master Yoda has a midichlorian count that high.?? One is set in stone and the other isn?t. There is enough uncertainty of Anakin?s future in the film without the possibility of maybe he won?t ever really amount to anything and Qui-Gon was just wrong, being thrown into the mix. This way we know that for good or for worse, Anakin will be the central figure in the future of the Jedi. Would any of you have preferred the method used in K. J. Anderson?s Jedi Search? I think not.


    Accidental Destruction of the Trade Federation Control Ship
    The reference to Luke?s victory at the end of ANH was done so in a way that was subtle in that it was different enough not to be directly compared to Luke?s trench run by way of saying how much better Luke?s defining moment in the first film was ect. And the acci
     
  5. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    I'm going to play TPM appologist on this one.

    Please don't use the term "apologists" in this forum. Many find it very insulting. Thanks :)
     
  6. MyEternalRest

    MyEternalRest Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Really? Why is that?
     
  7. DarthVegas

    DarthVegas Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2000
    1. Keira Knightly as Padme Amidala
    I think she would have taken all three prequels serious and not just the first one. Although I haven't seen her in Ep. III yet, from the lackluster performance she gave in AOTC, I don't have much else to go by. Keira, I think would have even brought out more from Hayden C. as Anakin, as he would have been much more emotional scene-wise, and probably much more turned on.

    2. Add scenes which depict drama
    This means, let's stick to the fundamental rules of telling a story through motion pictures and actually show the battle droids as an adequate enemy. Show Theed in danger. Show something that makes us go, "uh oh", instead of watching the stupid droid say it at the beginning. Show a tired, distraught Anakin, not a "Yippie!" slave. What the hell is that? Maybe an older Anakin would work with this, maybe it wouldn't, but either way... Drama, drama, drama. Not just a series of meaningless events.

    3. Less Jar-Jar, more... anybody
    Such a poor character with a poor stereotype written behind it deserves far less screentime. About the same screentime as the neumodian on the TF ship in the beginning also written with a poor stereotype. Get rid of these characters and get back to Star Wars for ****'s sake.

    Those are the three things I would change. :D
     
  8. Magellan_the_Cat

    Magellan_the_Cat Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    MyEternalRest, you've got so many run-on sentences in your epic post, that it becomes non-sensical and more difficult to read than it is to just skip. Especially by the time you get to Darth Maul's demise. Don't want to be overly harsh, but you might want to rephrase some of that. You're point on "replace his script with mine" is quite true. I find myself thinking the same thing. Even with BattlestarGalactica. If they're going to rewrite the series, why not just call it something else and make a whole new show?

    While Lucas can't have pleased everyone, I do think he should have done a better job.

    Here's a thought: Virgin Birth--"Virgin" has not always meant what it means today. "Virgin" was something very different to the Romans, the Gemans, and the Pagans. Because this is a family site, I can't go into detail, but look it up some time, or PM me. Mythologically speaking, "Virgin Births" were common, just like "The house was infested with poisonous snakes", "The Sun disappeard and the sky went dark", or "The Cock crowed three times." Unusual births are a staple of mythology. I just thought it was inappropriate in a SF themed series.

    I don't know who voiced it first, but I liked one scenario I read here: Shmi had an affair with a Jedi. He left not knowing she was pregnant. She went to find him. The ship she was on was attacked by pirates, and she was sold into slavery, never having a chance to contact him. She spent the years hoping he would sense her and come to her rescue, but it never happened. Thus "There was no father. I don't know what happened." actually makes sense, from a certain point of view.

    Darth Maul was too undefined. Deadly, maybe. But there was no substance to his menace.

    What I would change: The whole galaxy doesn't have to revolve around Tatooine. Make it some place else.

    Make Anakin stronger. I know Lucas likes whiney kids, but they grate on other people's nerves. Not necessarily older, but stronger. Make his destruction of the droid control ship a deliberate, consious decision. Instead of "Ooops", how about "Stop shooting at my friends! <BLAMMO>".

    Make the Gungans the Proud Warrior People they should have been.

    Now, for EP2, I have a few things I would like to change:
    1: a good, rational reason for why no one thought to do anything about Anakin's mother for 10 years. Between OB1, Anakin, Padme, and the Jedi Council, surely someone could have done something to get here out of slavery and out of danger.
    2: an explanation of Naboo political structure. If you have to do the elected queen for 2 terms of 4 years, explain it properly.
    3: either more time exploring the politics, or less. What was there wasn't enough to really show what was going on, and it was too much to be ignored.
    I'd also like to cut the stupidity of a flying R2D2, and have a decent romantic interaction between Padme and Anakin, but we're stretching Lucas a bit already.

    At least he hasn't made Padme sing. We should be greatful for that.
     
  9. MyEternalRest

    MyEternalRest Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2002
    MyEternalRest, you've got so many run-on sentences in your epic post, that it becomes non-sensical and more difficult to read than it is to just skip.

    Well, sorry for that. If anyone choose to wade through the Nathaniel Hawthorne like-sentences, thanks. I was just trying to post what I thought.
     
  10. Aunecah_Skywalker

    Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2002
    1) Give Obi-Wan more screen time.
    2) Get rid of Anakin's "accidental" blowing-up of the battlestation - really, it'd have been so much cooler if R2 did it.
    3) Make it a little harder for the Queen's ship to escape the blockade early in the game.

    -Aunecah
     
  11. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    1.Anakin should be around 15
    2.Keira Knightly as Padme
    3.Jar Jar should be more mature
    4.Maul should have been the threat he is in Shadow Hunter
     
  12. jedi_crewe

    jedi_crewe Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2002
    1. Anakin should definately destroy the control ship on purpose not by accident

    2. It would have been great if they had shown some of the naboo pilots blasting the droid starfighters, ie dogfighting like ANH and ROTJ

    3. Also it would be hella cool if Qui-Gon and OB1 were partners like a couple of cops rather than master and aprentice. then Yoda would have trained OB1, Dooku could still have trained Qui-Gon and like all cop duo's they have different styles.
     
  13. dsk2

    dsk2 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2001
    1. I would eliminate the rule of 2 and have more Sith involved. The more sith the better; perhaps a Sith Cult gets involved, or Sith bounty hunter/pirates, or just as apprentices to Sidious. The rule doesn't make sense because Sith haven't been around for a millenia, and when they were they were a lot of them. The rule also doesn't make sense given the universal fact that power corrupts, so people with force powers all across the galaxy (if untrained by Jedi) could easily fall prey to the dark side... and would be recruited, trained, and brain-washed into the Sith. (by the end of Ep III, they could be killed off, and then maybe a rule of 2 could be established).

    2. I would have Queen Amidala be a REAL queen with Royal lineage, so it makes her persona more believable and her character more interesting and 'epic.' A jedi and a 'queen' in a relationship sounds more soap-operatic, romantic and just plain cooler than a jedi and a politician together.

    3. I would depict Anakin's slavery as harsh, not carefree and peaceful. so then Anakin's quickness to anger, hatred, and fear make sense. Plus, we could sympathize with him more. Besides being more realistic to how slavery actually is, it's just more interesting of a character arc: from 'lowly slave to Galactic Sith Warlord'. 'Indentured servant to Galactic Sith Warlord' doesn't have the same charm.

    3b. I would show Naboo suffering so the audience can actually care and fear for them. We don't actually see any normal Naboo citizens, do we?
     
  14. TrueJedi

    TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    (1) Don't have Anakin in TPM until AOTC.

    (2) Don't have Obi-Wan in TPM until AOTC.

    (3) Don't have Sidious in TPM until AOTC.

    (4) Don't have Qui-Gon in it at all.


    This would make for a very different film. :p
     
  15. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    That post does nothing to add to this discussion. Please keep your comments relevant to what you would change in TPM.

     
  16. jedi_john_33

    jedi_john_33 Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Three things I would change...

    1. Anakin would have been on his own. He wouldn't have his mother, he wouldn't be a slave. Knowing he had special abilities, he would sneak up on Qui-Gon and steal his credits. Qui-Gon would go to Watto and ask for a ship part, whip out his credits, but, BAM! they are gone. Using the force to search his memory, he recalls being bumped into by a small boy. Since his worries were on the ship, he didn't think twice about it. They go find him, get the credits back. Qui-Gon notices his potential and takes him with them. This will take out the annoying pod racing too.

    2. Gungans need to be less annoying. I hate how they talk. Jar jar should be more intelligent to assume the rank of General. He should have died long before Qui-Gonn found him. And he should have died like 20 times in that silly CGI battle.

    3. Darth Maul should have gotten away. This means that Qui-Gonn would have to be acting alone and that Obi-Wan wouldn't make an appearance till Episode 2. It would keep the balance of him in ESB saying that Yoda trained him. Yoda trains him during Episode 1, Qui-Gonn dies by Maul. Maul then escapes. They have the potential prophecy on their hands, and Yoda appoints the task to Obi-Wan. I think Maul should live until Episode 3, where Anakin would prove himself to Sidious by destroying Maul and the Jedi Order.
     
  17. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    But then that shows Anakin being a thief right off. He never turns bad, he was bad to begin with. This is the exact opposite of what Lucas was going for with Anakin's character. The idea here is to show that the potential for evil lies in all of us. To make Anakin bad from the beginning guts this. We can all say "Well that's not me... I am a good person."

     
  18. Loyal-Guard

    Loyal-Guard Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2002
    1. I love the way the film starts, but the shift in tempo from the opening Jedi vs. TF stuff to the Gungan plot is a little harsh. I don't mind Jar Jar, it's just that some of the urgency of reaching the queen is dampened a bit. I suppose this is a complaint that has been lobbied quite a bit about the film as a whole.

    2. Those Jedi council scenes accomplish nothing other than pointing characters in a certian direction. I understand this is something that had to be done, and understand that this kind of scene is manditory in any fantasy film (even a sci-fi/fantasy one) but there are 3 scenes with the council, and nothing much of importance seems to happen each time.

    3. This is a minor one, but one of my favorite lines actually comes from Jar Jar. It's the part where he asks the queen if the gungans will get "pasted" too, after which he takes pride in his culture's army. It's such an intresting moment as it's kind of touching that a person outcast from his people because he's different would still feel a sense of pride or, in a sense, patriotism, about where he's from, even though they aren't perfect. When he assumes that that is why the above ground citizens of Naboo don't like the gungans, I wish the queen had been given something to say about what Jar Jar had to say. Not much really, just something about her feelings about the two races and why they kept themselves at arms length for so long.

    other than that, I was and remain a fan of TPM in spite of some creaky moments.
     
  19. Rebel Scumb

    Rebel Scumb Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 1999
    1. Make Anakin the same age Luke was in ANH
    2. Have Obi-wan be the one who wants to train Anakin and QUi-gon is against it
    3. Have Shmi and Anakin already living with the Lars family

    or

    3. Make Darth Maul the one communcicating with the TF on Sidious behalf so that he can have more dialogue and Sidious becomes even more mysterious.


    "Anakin being older than he was would only create more problems such as why was he allowed to be trained when the standard was to train with Yoda for about 10 years before being taken as an apprentice and him allowing to be trained was a major risk taken by Yoda as it was. One could just say that they age for apprentiship could be raised to that it would've been acceptable, this however for me would detract from the relationship between Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Because then they would've only been together about ten years as compared to twenty(assuming that Obi-Wan was 29 in TPM). Because having spent twice as much time with Qui-Gon than Yoda shows how significant Qui-Gon's death was. "

    But Anakin was only with Shmi for 9 years and then didn't see her for another ten, and look how much that affected him.

    And of course we could get into the point that Qui-gon is not really essiential in the grand scheme of things anyway.

     
  20. Fox609

    Fox609 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 1999
    1. Explain who the Jedi are & what they are about a little more clearly as well as feature other Jedi more (Yoda in particular). For some reason I don't think future generations will like or understand the Jedi as well as they would if they were to watch ANH first like most of us have.

    2. Less kid oriented humor/characters. (Make Jar Jar more mature & leave the comic relief to the droids instead of poo & fart jokes.)

    3. Reverse roles with Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon as George had originally planned.

     
  21. MyEternalRest

    MyEternalRest Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2002
    I think Qui-Gon is very important to the tale of the PT, it goes a long way to explain why it was that Anakin was so easily led astray by Palpatine: he was not trained by the Jedi that he should've been, the like-wise unconventional Jedi that discovered him, Qui-Gon Jinn. It shows that the whole thing was done doomed from the second Maul's lightsaber met flesh.

    Essential, no. But it is also not essential to the telling of Anakin's falling to have a 12 minute duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan but it adds so very much. Nor is it essential to show us the way the romance between Anakin and Padme started, but guess what....

    What you are all suggesting is a PT, that is predicatble, skeleton of a PT that isn't really vital to the viewing of the OT the way that the PT as become. It's not supposed to compliment the OT it is supposed to tell the beggining of the story finished in the OT. God forbid that Lucas add something that alters the way we see parts of the last half of the saga.

    The OT was never supposed to stand alone and niether was the PT. Without one you cannot know the whole story. Accept it.

    I for one would rather be surprised by interesting twists changing my reactions so scenes that I know by heart. And I would not wish on anyone to have to watch what the PT would be like if some of you had your way.
     
  22. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    3. Have Shmi and Anakin already living with the Lars family

    Now this one is a great idea. And if Kenobi was the one who discovered Anakin and persuaded him to join the Jedi order while Owen of course will disagree and thinks Anakin should stick to being a farmer (just like him) it would explain Owen's hatred of Obi Wan in ANH.
     
  23. Rebel Scumb

    Rebel Scumb Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 22, 1999
    "But then that shows Anakin being a thief right off. He never turns bad, he was bad to begin with. This is the exact opposite of what Lucas was going for with Anakin's character."

    A poor person stealling isn't evil, they're just doing what they have to to survive.

    "For the people wanting to replace it with their own script, how?s about you replace the universe in which the story takes place with your own as well. Operating inside of the universe someone else created is one thing but operating in your own is something else entirely. You guys only seem to be good at the former; otherwise yours would be the creation being discussed."

    I have plenty of scripts, but I don't post them willy nilly on the internet for anyone to steal at whim. This is a SW forum so I contribute relevant material. At my age GL was fresh out of film school where he had earned a lot of respect and awards, and thats exactly where I am right now too.
     
  24. forever_jedi

    forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2002
    How many things would I change about TPM? Let me count the ways....

    Seriously, only 3? [face_shocked] Okay, at the top of the list...

    1. Exchange the amount of screentime Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan has and establish a warm relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan.
    This relationship - between Anakin and Obi-Wan - is perhaps the most important one in the entire saga; it needs to be seen ASAP.

    2. Make Anakin 14-16 years old, and REALLY guilty about going off to an adventurous, free life while leaving his mother behind as a slave.

    3. Make us - the audience - care about the great struggle the Naboo + Gungan people have against the TF and make that silly war a tad more realistic!
     
  25. Vader99

    Vader99 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    1 - Not have Jar Jar at the Gungan battle but instead with Amidala and comp. with his being clumsy he would wander off and end up where Maul killed QGJ. Maul and QGJ would glance at each other, nod and then kill him thus delaying the duel where obi can get back in earlier and QGJ doesnt die. plus Maul would prob not die like a punk. With this alone Jar Jar dies, Maul has a better death, QGJ trains Ani and Ani becomes a great Jedi Master (most likely).

    2 - Shorten Pod Racing scene. IMHO i think its just GL playing with toys and its not SW. the fart can stay tho

    3 - Ani not destroying the Battle Droid Ship by accident would change a whole lot. i always wanted to kill jake loyd for some reason...maybe this would help

    im dead serious about all of these. well maybe the 1st one doesnt have to be in that much detail, but i think that would be hilarious.

     
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