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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

If you could make any changes to the "Special 3D Edition" of TPM, what would you do?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by blazer003, Sep 30, 2010.

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  1. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Yeah, exactly. I've seen some dumb arguments saying that SW is really just for kids... but I have never seen anyone defend the Eopie fart. If you're reading this and you've defended the Eopie fart: for shame... for shame. [face_laugh]

    This is really quote-worthy! =D=
     
  2. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Everything drg4 writes is really quote-worthy. He's the most eminently quotable Star Wars fan of all time. Truly, he is a ray of light in the massive SW fan community. I need to gather up his writings and put them in a book. I'd also like to thank him for the recent (and past) compliments he has generously paid me (and several others) openly on this site. They are very appreciated. Unfortunately, due to having my posts tampered with and outright deleted (and those of several esteemed friends), I have -- broadly speaking -- gone into self-imposed exile. The bug to say a little more and discuss and probe SW further is always there, but the Internet is a very hostile place. However, I had to come in and say a few words here. A very clever reference, drg -- as always! Of course, I couldn't satisfy it, but it did inspire me to doodle on a cheap notepad for kicks. My drawing is horrible; a tacky, misbegotten scrawl. And the writing; oh, the writing (the less said, the better). No, I didn't honour your reference in any way that really matters, but I couldn't resist putting pen to paper. Here you go:

    Link To The Pictures:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/55136638@N08/sets/72157625095968271/

    Link To A Slideshow:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/55136638@N08/sets/72157625095968271/show/with/5106482110

    Keep on keepin' on, drg.
    MTFBWY
     
  3. drg4

    drg4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Don't disparage yourself, Cryo; your comic strip exceeded expectations. In one fell scribble, you provided the impetus for Order 66(!), and reaffirmed Jinn's place in the Saga's narrative context. See, you're ahead of your time. (The problem, to paraphrase the late George Carlin, is that it's only by an hour-and-a-half.:) )

    The conceit of a drg4 compilation makes me rather nervous. Beneath the all-too-easy one-liners lies a fractured personality, who had launched a failed crusade to prove to the fanbase that the Anakin-redemption subplot renders Return of the Jedi more reprehensible than Cannibal Holocaust. (If anything, one would marvel at my ability to unite OT/Saga purists, who, in understandably compounding desperation, sought to shut me up.)

    It's sad to hear those among the Old Guard are in exile. For the sake of lurking PT enthusiasts, I hold out hope for your return.
     
  4. Mond

    Mond Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2009
    MTE exactly. I have given up discussing anything Star Wars related on any site other than this one because I dislike being cussed out. If you think this site is hostile, look at discussions of Star Wars just about anywhere else. Most of the time, the worst you see on theforce.net is good natured ribbing, which is fun. So yeah, stick around and post some more.

    BTW, I also second the drg4 plaudits. :D
     
  5. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    As long as we're having a saga-defender's love fest, I may as well mention that some of you posters really turned my habits around as far as giving the movies enlightening new perspectives. I was browsing one of my year-old favorite topics and if I could set this as my signature I would. Its from a post by Cryogenic who I actually wish would post more.

    "The Phenomenon of Elvis Presley in American Life", by Elizabeth Kaye: "The wish to connect with power is an expression of the desire to return to the protected childhood state. To give away one?s power is to render oneself into childlike vulnerability and to thus become needful of parental protection. Therefore, in both the need to connect with power and to give one?s power away there lies an illusory path back to childhood safety." I can't think of a single piece of cinema that shows this more eloquently or more directly than the prequel trilogy.
     
  6. RogueTrader

    RogueTrader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2002
    I'd add more of what works: Darth Maul/duel of the fates. Also, they could add a few more scenes to the droid army battle that could make it more intense.

    Oh, and throw Dooku in there SOMEWHERE. Maybe he could be wearing a Syfo-Dias mask and order a clone army at a Kamino drive-thru.

    Seriously though, a cameo of Dooku in the background would be cool.

     
  7. Mond

    Mond Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2009
    Having him on the Jedi council would be amusing.
     
  8. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    I don't know about providing the impetus for Order 66, but a bit of Jinn-Love isn't a bad thing, is it? When I did the first panel, I had no idea what the punchline would be, but I quickly thought of something. Then I did the whole credits bit with Artoo afterward. If that part looks neater, it's because I was just scrawlin' away initially, since I absolutely suck at drawing and didn't think I'd make anything of it. You'll notice there's some bleed through on the last panels (a Body Mass Index thing on the reverse side). All cheap as chips. But fun.

    And there you go again. George Carlin. There's not much of him one could quote here and get away with. I enjoy your witty references a great deal. Often, discussions on SW, here and elsewhere, feel like they're taking place in an hermetically sealed jar. It's a welcome relief when fans occasionally pop up and bring back trinkets from the outside world. Air runs short in this 'ere jar. One day, the oxygen will run out; though it often feels like it already has.

    [face_laugh]

    That's going in the preface.

    Well, I guess I'm back. Sort of. I can only say look around you: the Golden Age, if there ever was one, has come and gone. 1998 - 2008. RIP. I'm fairly confident, however, if my own thoughts and feelings are anything to go by, that more PT enthusiasts (we sound like automobile lovers) would still have a presence here, on and off, if it wasn't for cyclical discussions and heavy-handed authority figures. I had best not say more.

    Thanks, Mond. By "hostile", I was referring, in a more generalized sense, to the nature of Internet discussions as a whole. There don't need to be harsh words or nasty insinuations flying from the screen. Many people, on various levels, can be -- and are -- complicit in fanning toxic fumes and desecrating even the hope of a civil exchange of new or minority viewpoints. To a large extent, it's basic human nature. Also, with power comes corruption (which is a major facet of these movies; how's that for sweet irony?). I love democracy. I love the Republic.

    Why do you do this to me, WHY??!! As grateful as I am for compliments, all of the above was mere stalling, I must confess, for I have created another strip based on your naughty remark. After this, I guess I should stop pimping these, but this thread and you people -- you bad, bad people! -- are
     
  9. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Sorry for double-posting, but I missed this post last night:

    Thank you, Mr Stamp. I hope I mentioned in that post -- if I didn't, I'm doing so now -- that "anak" means "child" in Filipino. Of course, the glib response of a non-PT fan is always to remind us PT reprobates that we can't know the mind of the artist, and even if we could, anything we have to say about meanings and references, subtle or overt, is just intellectual masturbation. The insidious thing about that is that they're right on both counts, but they're also strawmen. We don't have to know the mind of the artist directly (indeed, the art *is* the mind); further, we could never know it fully (just as we can never reach the bottom of the endless abyss of art; just as the sentinels we build up and vainly perch on, I might add, may serve certain purposes, but they're meaningless in an abyss that utterly envelops them). However, we can have some fun along the way, can't we? Lucas himself has said it very cleanly and very aptly: art is a way of communicating emotionally with people. We can get fired up over issues that our responses to art form an emergent environment for, but that our eyes and ears might be dead to in "real life". Art, then, is one way in which feelings are stirred within us, and in which our mind's eyes can be directed towards the light; or light that we imagine to be there. No less a man than Einstein once said: "Personally, I experience the greatest degree of pleasure in having contact with works of art. They furnish me with happy feelings of an intensity that I cannot derive from other sources." Now, I say that not to be pretentious, but merely to bring a bit of clarity to proceedings. Einstein is terrific in this regard (and that's an understatement); in fact, we could all benefit from paying his many words more heed.

    So, yeah, thanks for the compliment, Mr Stamp. :p
     
  10. IG_2000

    IG_2000 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2008
    [face_laugh] oh God I just pictured that.

    Besides some aesthetic changes and some toning down of Anakin's dialogue (I honestly have no problem with Jar Jar, I just don't like Anakin's horrible dialogue) I can't really think of much. Maybe the reinsertion of the Greedo scene and other deleted scenes.
     
  11. shanerjedi

    shanerjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2010
    [face_laugh]

    Are you saying the underlying theme of SW is....Gas? Lots and lots of gas? [face_laugh]
     
  12. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    YES! YES I AM!
    And if one end of the saga has its burp jokes, the other end HAS to have fart jokes. Its science.
     
  13. shanerjedi

    shanerjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2010
    TPM is my favorite PT film.

    But since these lists will never, ever go away:

    1. Redo the opening crawl. No taxation. No trade disputes. Make it more clear cut. The federation is a bunch of baddies. Republic is a bunch of goodies.

    2. Make TC-14 an early version of 3PO.

    3. Darken Sidious' features under the hood and alter his voice. Keep him under wraps for now.

    4. Reinsert the invasion excuse from Lucas' revised rough draft: a group of dissenters requested federation help because the Queen is causing chaos and starvation for her people.

    5. Show Jinn cutting that sith probe

    6. Make pod race 2 laps instead of 2. And make it have a real consequence to the heroes, not just for an engine or parts.

    7. Cut farting eeopie

    8. Cut stepping in poop

    9. Change Nass' dialogue so he says "underwater caves" instead of planet core.

    10. More Maul and jedi duel

    11. Naboo soldiers in battle fighting alongside gungans at end.

    12. Put Dooku in JC scenes instead of Plo Koon

    13. Place Dooku on hillside overlooking Qui-Gon funeral pyre

    14. No Binks jewels slapping on the tank turret

    15. Have Anakin fly away and join space battle on purpose.
     
  14. chreff

    chreff Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 21, 2010
    These I agree with. Jar Jar could be easier to bear with just some more editing. No poo doo, farts, etc. Cut a few lines of dialogue or trim down scenes (his dinner scene antics) and the whole film could flow better. A minute here or there makes a lot of difference for pace.

    I'd also cut "Anakin's friends". That scene is lame (Lucas' kid is there I think, but since they got cameos in ROTS, "cut that $h#t out B!") and it'd be easy to just erase Kitster from all the pod race related scenes. Why does a slave have friends? Does he go to school? Would he miss his Mom more if she's all he ever had?

    Also, I like the theatrical pod race. The DVD version is too long and really messed up the continuity since the inserted scenes from lap 1 are in lap 2 and parts of the track are shown in the wrong spots. The theatrical cut is better although the Fode & Beed character could use a better looking makeover (I know they slapped that model together since they had intended to use real actors faces).

    You're correct about adding some humans in the Gungan fight. That could add more realism to that scene so it isn't a cartoon battle.

    I would also probably cut the R2-D2 scene when he's being congratulated and then the decoy queen commands that Padme clean him. This scene never made sense to me. Qui-GOn asserted control of the group and shouldn't ask for permission. I think Lucas wanted to introduce R2 (but we all know who he is and his introduction in the prior scene where he saves the ship is far better) and to set up the Padme decoy (but I think we all got the idea when Padme spoke up before escaping from Naboo). Also, Padme gives her name in the following scene when Jar Jar introduces himself while she's cleaning R2. Her cleaning him shouldn't be a command. It'd make more sense if they go from the escape from Naboo with Qui-Gon saying they're going to Tatooine, to the Sidious hologram scene and then right to the Tatooine landing and Obi-Wan telling Qui-Gon the hyperdrive is fried. This way we'd first learn R2's name in the same scene with C-3PO which is cooler IMO.

    I always liked the Sith probe-droid cut scene the best and agree it should be inserted. It explains why their running to the ship.

    I would like more Maul. Aside from some other shots from both fights maybe they can add another scene with some dialogue. Just one. Perhaps after Sidious tells the Nemoidians that he's sending Maul to Naboo we can see Maul actually piloting his Sith starship since he would have departed from Tatootine (where we last saw him) to go to Naboo. Sidious could give him some instruction via hologram while he's en route to Naboo and then Maul could make another comment regarding "Sith revenge" ("revenge" is mentioned just once - not counting the title of Ep III - so I think another comment reiterates this is about payback in some way). Since this scene would be after Palpatine's nomination and the Jedi council meeting, but while the Queen & Jedi are en route to Naboo, Sidious could say to Maul "the Jedi are aware of our presence, but are blinded by their arrogance! They are too foolish to discover our plot!" Maul then says "Revenge is ours, master! I will not fail you!" Which of course he does which then explains why we have the 2 sequels that take place far later. This scene would be easy to film since the hologram could be CGI and Ray Park would look the same now in makeup (give us what we want please Lucas!).

    They need to put the correct actors as the Jedi in the scene where Palpatine comes back to Naboo at the e
     
  15. kmst12

    kmst12 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2005
    If we're going to go with realistic changes, there's one minor detail about TPM that grates me every time I watch it and can be very easily fixed. Qui-Gon tells Anakin to stay there and he says "but I.." and then gets interrupted by Qui-Gon.... except that there's a pause in between when he stops talking and Qui-Gon starts, even though he was supposed to be cutting him off mid-sentence. It annoyed me and just a second or so of editing would be all it would take to make it better. And if that already got mentioned, I apologize because I didn't read all four pages of "take out all of Jar-Jar's scenes." ;)
     
  16. Fat_Rancor_Keeper

    Fat_Rancor_Keeper Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2010
    "I would also probably cut the R2-D2 scene when he's being congratulated and then the decoy queen commands that Padme clean him. This scene never made sense to me. Qui-GOn asserted control of the group and shouldn't ask for permission. I think Lucas wanted to introduce R2 (but we all know who he is and his introduction in the prior scene where he saves the ship is far better) and to set up the Padme decoy (but I think we all got the idea when Padme spoke up before escaping from Naboo). Also, Padme gives her name in the following scene when Jar Jar introduces himself while she's cleaning R2. Her cleaning him shouldn't be a command. It'd make more sense if they go from the escape from Naboo with Qui-Gon saying they're going to Tatooine, to the Sidious hologram scene and then right to the Tatooine landing and Obi-Wan telling Qui-Gon the hyperdrive is fried. This way we'd first learn R2's name in the same scene with C-3PO which is cooler IMO."

    ^^ This! Sounds like a great fix and it would help move things along. In fact that whole scene plays like a deleted scene you would watch and hear the director mentioning everything you said.
     
  17. Nightowl

    Nightowl TFN Timetales Writer star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    Bear with me, this is gonna be a LONNNNGGGG post...

    1: A slightly rewritten crawl.

    "It is a time of political turmoil in the galaxy. The corrupt Republic Senate has just levied a heavy tax on all interstellar trade routes.
    In retaliation, the greedy TRADE FEDERATION has blockaded the small planet of Naboo, on the Republic's outer border, with a flotilla of heavily armored bulk freighters.
    While the Senate endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, Supreme Chancellor Valorum has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, to the beleagured paradise planet...."

    2: Instead of Darth Sidious fading into view and asking "What is it?", have him already 'in-scene' for his debut. Going from that line to Captain Dofine's "This scheme of yours has failed" strikes me as bad storytelling. Sidious is smart, but he ain't THAT much of a mind-reader that he can instantly figure out what's going on.

    3: Reinstate Obi-Wan's 'Apocalypse Now' moment during the initial droid landing. Also Jar-Jar's clam-eating intro and Qui-Gon chiding his student for shorting out his lightsaber.

    4: Reinstate John Williams' Jar-Jar theme when he tells the Jedi about Otoh Gunga.

    5: Delete Jar-Jar getting zapped by the Gungan guard on Otoh Gunga and the line "How wude!"

    6: Delete Qui-Gon using the Jedi mind trick (one time too many) while telling Boss Nass "Your gods demand that his life belongs to me now." Just telling Nass Jar-Jar owes him a life debt (and thus would be leaving the city and out of his way) ought to be enough to satisfy the Gungan leader.

    7: Trim down the underwater sequence, losing half of Jar-Jar's (dumber) lines while retaining the danger of the underwater monsters.

    8: A couple of quick insert shots during the droid army's arrival in Theed to play up the human element of the invasion (peaceful people getting steamrolled & dominated by merciless, heartless droids) would go a LONG way to set up the dramatic thrust/urgency of Padme's story arc.
     
  18. Nightowl

    Nightowl TFN Timetales Writer star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    9: Reinstate the Waterfall scene.

    10: Remove the battle droid commander's bumbling at the hangar. Dumb as battle droids are, the commander should still be smart enough to instantly say "You're under arrest!" when Qui-Gon announces his plans.

    11: During the escape from Naboo, trim down as many of Ric Olie and Panaka's "obvious" lines as the flow of the scene and Williams' music will permit.

    12: As suggested elsewhere in the thread, delete the "Introducing Artoo/Jar-Jar meets Padme" scenes.

    13: Delete Jar-Jar stepping in poop.

    14: Slightly redo all the Tatooine alien subtitles to make them a little grittier, more natural sounding.

    15: Cut out Anakin's "Yippee!" Go from his line "They seemed all right to me," to the closeup of Watto grunting, to the exterior shot of the Naboo cruiser.

    16: Redo Anakin's "Sandstorms are very......very dangerous" line.

    17: Redub Darth Maul's line on Coruscant: "Tatooine is sparsely populated. If my insights are correct, I will find them quickly, Master." The plot hole of how the Sith trace the Queen's ship to Tatooine is thus neatly filled - a bit of Sith meditation/Dark Side vision pointed the way.
     
  19. Nightowl

    Nightowl TFN Timetales Writer star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1998
    18: Lose the eopie fart.

    19: Add music to the entire Podrace. Suggest using most of the alternate "Sail Barge Assault" from ROTJ (starting when everybody but Anakin takes off), followed by the original "Anakin Beats Sebulba" cue for when Anakin loses one of his control cables, then the triumphant Force theme from the original "Anakin's Funeral" in ROTJ for when Anakin takes the lead from Sebulba in lap three just before the sabotaged pod part breaks off.

    20: Reinstate the fight with Greedo, cutting off just the end (before Wald identifies the young Rodian as Greedo).

    21: Reinstate the Probe Droid ambush, and the original end of the Qui-Gon/Maul fight on the Naboo ship's landing ramp.

    22: Trim out a few Yoda lines in the first Jedi Council scene, more firmly establishing Mace Windu as the Council leader (and making him even more dismissive of Qui-Gon's claims about the Sith).

    23: Reinstate a few lines from Obi-Wan as the Naboo cruiser returns home, explaining why the blockade has vanished.

    24: Rework the entire Battle of Naboo to its' original edit (including music), while removing as much Jar-Jar looniness as possible and making Anakin's actions more deliberate.

    25: In the final shot of Qui-Gon's funeral, slow down the last camera pan to linger more on Palpatine's face while dubbing the echoing laugh of Darth Sidious over the shot. If you (the first-time-ever viewer) somehow haven't made the connection between Palpatine and Sidious up to this point, this will make the connection crystal-clear to even the thickest-headed. (I'm sorry, but keeping up the mystery, for the audience as well as the heroes, of "who is Sidious" through AOTC made no damn sense at all. AOTC/ROTS is easier to follow if you know who Sidious is up front, and TPM's victory celebration gains that haunting sense of wrongness that feeds perfectly into the next film.)
     
  20. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I'd get rid of the unnecessary Jar Jar slapstick-stepping on poop, smelling farts...too much!

    Fix the lightsabers. They are a bit...dull.

    And of course, CG Yoda.
     
  21. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Now that I think about it, you're right. Maybe keep one of the above, but not both. That's just excessive.

    They should add a going-to-lightspeed cockpit POV shot. It doesn't seem right that that only appears in the OT and in TCW.
     
  22. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    1. Cut out "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away". We've already seen that in three prior movies. Is it really needed a 4th time? It's just slowing everything down.

    2. Cut out that big "STAR WARS" logo. You know? The one that flashes up at the start. Yeah, it's cool 'n' all, but people know what they're watching. Again, we've seen it in three previous films. Plus, the music there is really loud and obnoxious. What's with that? Put in some Mrs. Mills Piano Favourites instead.

    3. Re-word the opening crawl so that it resembles the wording of the first SW movie. Lucas strayed too far with all this taxation nonsense. And what the hell is "supreme" about a chancellor who had his hand crushed by Superman and was thrown into a pit obscured by dry ice in a secret lair in the Arctic? Rubbish.

    4. Remove all scenes in which a character blinks or turns their head. They're obviously all redundant. And badly written, acted, directed, and edited, too. This way, Lucas also stays true to his philosophy of "Faster! More intense!", and everyone gets a kick-ass movie devoid of wit, imagination, substance, and Hugh Quarshie.

    5. Cut the end credits and replace them with a giant picture of an elephant stepping on a watermelon. Lucas needs to make a big statement at the end of this movie, and a giant picture of an elephant stepping on a watermelon would be just the thing.
     
  23. StampidHD280pro

    StampidHD280pro Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    If you keep telling yourself that you're going to get in trouble, you're bound to step in crap. This happens as soon as he enters Mos Eisley ("Disen gonna be bery bery bad") and later when he accidentally ticks off Sebulba ("Wesa be wobbed un cwunched!"). He gets what he expects. Eliminating the poop joke (pun intended) ruins one aspect of Jar-Jar's character.

    I respect that people don't like the fart and poop jokes, but sometimes I get the impression that you don't understand how unnatural it is to just remove bits and pieces from a movie. That Phantom Edit is already there for people who don't want to accept the movie for what it is. Thankfully, I know TPM isn't gonna get butchered. And there will be much complaining.
     
  24. shanerjedi

    shanerjedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Ok, the poop might have symbolic meaning(can't believe I just said that), but the fart?

    Do we need one thing after another to drive the point home that Jar jar is a lowly lackey?

    We get it. He's been banished. Boss Nass sends him with the jedi to a certain death. He steps in poop. Okay, we get it now.

    But farted on?

    At this rate, the next Star Wars film will feature the Empire's ultimate weapon, the Death Fart.
     
  25. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    There's something oddly profound in that. [face_laugh]
     
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