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If you didn't before, do you *still* disagree with Kyp's approach in light of today's tragedy?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by barnsthefatjedi, Sep 11, 2001.

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  1. BobaFetts_Clone

    BobaFetts_Clone Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 12, 2001
    Its true that the read perpetrators of the crime are dead, but i think that they the people responsilble for getting them into the country, funding their actions and connecting all these groups together are just as much responsible.

    Whats to be done? Well first i think we have to find out who was involved and how and punish them accordingly. Everyone has been saying that its probably Bin Laden, but random bombing of Afganistan isn't going to solve the problem. Afganistan isn't that technologically oriented; they're still living in the stone age someone said,it probably won't do anything. those are my thoughts on that.

    I think that kyp has the mentality that the NR is losing because they have rules and the enemy does not. So, he's going on guerrilla missions to even the score. I thin kyp is right to take the fight to the vong, but this choice of targets and his methods are suspect. Luke needs to stop being so defensive and actually try to work out something where they will be defending while still helping solve the problem.
     
  2. Emiaj

    Emiaj Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2001
    Kyp is a Jedi. The Jedi are supposed to act as protectors. However, noone is asking should the New Republic act out. The NR should and does retaliate as should America.
     
  3. barnsthefatjedi

    barnsthefatjedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2001
    So Kyp may be a renegade, but if he can help bring justice to the Vong, then why shouldn't he? The fact that he is a Jedi is quite irrelevant. If the Jedi don't seek justice, then they are quite pointless.
     
  4. Gandalf the Grey

    Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 14, 2000
    There is a difference between Justice and Vengeance that I think you're confusing.
     
  5. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2000
    Now they have got evidence, that more terrorists are out there free that were tied to group that hit on the 11th, that also intended to cause destruction. They must be apprenhended.
     
  6. barnsthefatjedi

    barnsthefatjedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2001
    'There is a difference between Justice and Vengeance that I think you're confusing.'

    You could say the same thing about America's immenent military retaliations. Kyp is not seeking Vengeance against the Vong. He is bringing them to justice.
     
  7. AthyraFire

    AthyraFire Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2001
    before the 11th, i was in the middle as to whether or not Kyp's approach is wrong.

    since Tuesday, i've decided that terrorists and those who harbor terrorists must be punished in the most severe way possible. the Yuuzhan Vong are nothing more than heartless terrorists, the same as those who have struck the U.S. recently. they can NOT go unpunished for such a heinous act.

    Kyp's aggressive approach is the only thing that can bring justice upon the Yuuzhan Vong.

    This CANNOT happen again.
     
  8. MaceWinducannotdie

    MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2001
    barnsthefatjedi, nonsense, Kyp has been seeking vengence ever since he got off Kessel.

    Now, let us review Kyp's approach (which I still disagree with). The last time I checked he completely lied about a target to the New Republic. He should be in severe trouble for knowingly providing fraudulent intelligence.
     
  9. barnsthefatjedi

    barnsthefatjedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2001
    That's your interpretation. I would appreciate it if you do not call mine 'nonsense'.

    Yes, he did lie, and if he hadn't, the Vong would have multiplied dramatically resulting in the destruction of many more worlds and lives.
     
  10. Wedge 88

    Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 1999
    Shouldn't it be "If you didn't before, do you *now* disagree with Kyp's approach in light of today's tragedy?" or "If you did before, do you "still" disagree with Kyp's approach in light of today's tragedy?"

    Yeah, I'm gotta keep up my rep as a smart arse.
     
  11. Vong_Killer

    Vong_Killer Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2001
    I have to say that my opinon of kyp still stands. If noone is gonna do n any thing, than when Kyp does it is anything but wrong. Now there are aspects of this that may sway my opinion. Was the world ship holding civilians? If it was then what Kyp has done was entirly wrong and in no way should be a sanctioned action. If the US can retaliate without taking civilain causulities than i'm all for a retalitory strike. If not, than the US will become everything we have vowed to extinguish within the past few days. Then again what Kyp has done civilians or not, may still have been apropriate. What the Jedi and NR don't relize is that ALL Yuuzhan Vong within the galaxy are our enemy. Children, who are breed to become worriars and even the Shamed Ones who serve the Vong. There is no such thing as a civilian Vong.
     
  12. MaceWinducannotdie

    MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2001
    Also I might add that this is exactly the kind of thing that Yoda warns about. If I were to embrace Kyp's approach after steadfastly opposing it because a tragedy occurs in the real world, I'd be letting my emotions take over. They'd be my darker emotions too. It would be as follows: "I'm afraid/angry, which makes me identify with Kyp's perspective." I could do that, but I'd be betraying my beliefs to my fears. The ends-justify-the-means philosophy that Kyp*, the Empire, and the real-world terrorists embraced is wrong in this galaxy AND the one far, far away.

    *As shown by his lethal lie in Rebirth
     
  13. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    The concept of mortal sin strikes me.

    For those unaware it's a Catholic Belief that some actions including the murder of a nother human being even in the face of extreme provocation....

    and unrepetence...

    Will damn you to Hell.

    Thats how the Dark Side strikes me
     
  14. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2000
    Maybe we aren't all catholic, and we have different beliefs. Just a thought...
     
  15. MaceWinducannotdie

    MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2001
    Yes, Valiento. But he's just voicing his.
     
  16. Valiento

    Valiento Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2000
    That's fine that he can voice his own oppinions, just as long as we are allowed to voice are own oppinions freely.

    Just as long as he isn't implying, "Will damn you to Hell.", at anyone.
     
  17. Grand_Admiral_Jaxx

    Grand_Admiral_Jaxx Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2000
    I stumbled upon this thread, and I've been thinking...

    I've always applauded Kyp's actions because he is doing something

    The Vong haven't generated any sympathy for me, and quite frankly, I don't understand how you could have ever disagreed with him just because Luke says it's wrong.

    Luke can be wrong.

    (please don't take that the wrong way... I did not mean to insult anyone, so don't take offense... I am just curious and I'm trying to be honest in my opinion... so please don't flame me... if you must flame me, PM me, I'd rather not get drawn into a public and ugly conversation :()
     
  18. snap-hiss

    snap-hiss Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2001
    I saw Kyp's approach as wrong, and I still do.
     
  19. Tiershon_Fett

    Tiershon_Fett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2000
    I never disagreed with his actions. I disagree with his 'I know what's best for everyone' attitude, without consulting them first. He's presumtuous. He uses people to further his own ends. He means well, but not well enough, for my taste.
     
  20. Grand_Admiral_Jaxx

    Grand_Admiral_Jaxx Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2000
    That clears it up a little bit. But then, nobody is perfect.

    I don't like his pretentious attitude either, but the key thing is that he provided hope for those people, especially to his fellow pilots at the end of the book.
     
  21. Grand_Admiral_Jaxx

    Grand_Admiral_Jaxx Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2000
    anyone else care to comment?
     
  22. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Actually I think Luke is right.

    The Reasons are rather Simple.

    Preservation of the Jedi Knighthood

    Kyp's Strategy:

    * Attack the Vong until they bleed

    What has it accomplished:

    A single half completed worldship
    Some harried supply lines
    One dead Worldship

    Cost: 2 Jedi Knights

    Luke's Strategy:

    * Seek out holes in the Vong and destroy them

    If you disagree your wrong.

    What has it accomplished

    * The Eradication of the Prateorite Vong Fleet and it's Yammosk

    * The discovery of Balforra pollen

    * The defeat of the Vong at Ithor though at a terrible cost

    * The Defeat of the Vong at Yavin IV

    If Anakin and Sal had kept his pants on the strategy also would have had the Hapans crush the Vong at Fondor.

    Cost: 4 Jedi (But exceptional circumstance involved and I think far more would be dead under Kyp)
     
  23. Jarik

    Jarik Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 2000
    "Luke's Strategy:

    * Seek out holes in the Vong and destroy them

    If you disagree your wrong.

    What has it accomplished

    * The Eradication of the Prateorite Vong Fleet and it's Yammosk
    * The discovery of Balforra pollen
    * The defeat of the Vong at Ithor though at a terrible cost
    * The Defeat of the Vong at Yavin IV
    If Anakin and Sal had kept his pants on the strategy also would have had the Hapans crush the Vong at Fondor."

    Luke's strategy really had nothing to do with this. They eradicated the Praeterite Vong through attack, which is not Luke's strategy. In fact it is Kyp's strategy. Attack. The pollen was discovered by chance in the midst of a fight. Luke's operatives did not discover it after much work corresponding with Luke's strategy. They were defending Ithor ad fighting the Vong and the Vobg won that one. Ithor's not there anymore. The Vong won at high costs. The NR lost at even higher costs. The Vong also won at Yavin 4. They now have the planet. A succeesful evactuation cannot be considered a true victory. What they did was keep everything they had except a plane, so they lost a planet. That is not really very good. They should have cleared out long before if no new defenses were coming. I don't know why Luke didn't have them do this. Actually the Vong outnumbered and outgunned the NR at Fondor even counting the Hapans assistance, though it was not by much the outcome surely was not determined. The Vong, even probably would've won. Anakin should have fired if he could have been as accurate as he claims.
     
  24. Emiaj

    Emiaj Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2001
    If a security guard decided to take his plane and attack the terrorists on his own would he be right???

    I do not believe Kyp's approach is right.

    However, I also do not believe the New Republics approach is right either. They should be striking back against the Vong to send out the message that noone can invade their space.

    However, the Vong are not terrorists. They are an invasion force. The Afghanistinian terrorists were not attempting to invade America but to destroy its morale by promoting terror.

     
  25. barnsthefatjedi

    barnsthefatjedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2001
    Both are acts of war, regardless of the motives. Both put lives at risk too.

    And yes, you are right, Wedge88. I must have gotten muddled up somewhere. Oops :p
     
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