"IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH AMERICA YOU MUST HATE IT"

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by thegreatyoda, Jul 10, 2002.

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  1. thegreatyoda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2001
    star 4
    I have found that a disturbingly large amount of people are saying "If you don't agree with America than you must be anti-American". Where the hell did those statements come from? My best guess would be from 9/11. Think about it, before 9/11 you could say that you dissagreed with America's policies and have a nice intelligent discussion about it. Now we get something along these lines.

    PERSON 1: You know I think some of these increased security measures are a bit unessacary.

    PERSON 2: Well, you don't want terrorists to get past security do you? Remember what happened on September 11th. If we were more vigilant we would have been ready.

    PERSON 1: I wish we could move on from 9/11.

    PERSON 2: 9/11 was awful!

    PERSON 1: Yes it was, but we need to move on.

    PERSON 2: Move on? Do you even care?

    PERSON 1: Of course I care! All I'm saying is that America was so shaken by September 11 that they are acting irrationally. We're living in the past. Bush should be working on preventing things like that from happening in the future. We've already redoubled FBI efforts, bombed the hell out of Afghanastan [most likely killing Bin Laden], now we should do things like change our view of ourselves.

    PERSON 2: Ourselves? You're saying that 9/11 was our fault.

    PERSON 1: No, but you've got to admit that some times our country is pretty arrogant to the rest of the world.

    PERSON 2: Arrogant! Hah! If you hate America so much, why not you ship you terrorist ass over to afghanastan and help them.

    This type of conversation is all too common nowadays. Just check the boards right here for proof. Just because a person doesn't agree with everything America does, or finds it strange that patriotisim is being used as merchendising, doesn't means he hates the country. Remember, if people didn't disagree with the US Government we'd still be having signs that say
    "NO NEGROS ALLOWED IN THIS ESTABLISHMENT"

    PS
    LordBane,
    I saw you lock GutterMonkey's board. Go ahead and lock mine, prove our points.

    TheGreatYoda
    American
    [Even if he speaks his mind]
  2. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    YOU KNOW SOME PEOPLE LIKE IT WHEN YOU TURN YOUR CAPS OFF. They're just weird like that.

    I've no problems with people disagreeing with the US. The times I think someone's anti-american is whenever there's a subject that involves the US the same people are ones critising it time and time again. There are a few that I've yet to see offer one postive thing about the US. When this happens one must wonder about wether they're anti-american or just hard to please.
  3. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Do you realize how... lets use the word gnarly instead of something that might get me spanked... how gnarly it is of you to challange a Mod to lock your thread?

    Are you so completely gnarly that you find it neccesary to do so?

    How absolutely gnarly.

    You know what would have been great, if we had moved beyond the fact we got bombed at Pearl Harbor and made peace with the Japanese instead of horribly killing Millions in our mad quest for vengence.

    The US is pretty arrogant to the rest of the world... agreed. And yet you can't seem to look at it from the other perspective and say the rest of the world is pretty screwed up too. I mean, you can say the Us has a lot of failures but I don't see you praising the actions of the Government of Zimbabwe. Exactly what are you in favour of? Laissez-Faire diplomacy?

    You know what I hate, when stores put flags in the bakgrounds of their ads for fourth of July sales, especially since they've never done that in the past. I mean come on, it's not like the day is about America or anything.

    I agree, Bin Laden is probably dead, we should accept good enough and not make sure. After all, what could he possibly do to America?

    Right?

    Right.... o_O
  4. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I agree with you thegreatyoda

    how gnarly it is of you to challange a Mod to lock your thread?

    Are you so completely gnarly that you find it neccesary to do so?


    have you been to the patriotism thread?

    for some reason it was closed because according to Lord Bane people were bashing USA.

    Well I read the entire thread trough I never saw a post that contains bashing.

    Only saying that patriotism was going to far

    The times I think someone's anti-american is whenever there's a subject that involves the US the same people are ones critising it time and time again.

    true :p

    YOU KNOW SOME PEOPLE LIKE IT WHEN YOU TURN YOUR CAPS OFF

    agreed about that one as well

    America is a great country been there once. (Chicago and Florida). I love it, it's completly different then Europe.

    The only problem I have is that people sometimes are arrogant or too patriotic. If you could tone that down. You'll be less cricicsized...

    It's a fact...
  5. imzadi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 4
    I have criticised America a few times on this board, but I don't think anyone has ever said "You're an America hater" or something.

    Sometimes it goes too far, on both sides. When it changes from a debate to a slinging match (on both sides), I leave.

    Both sides don't want to hear anything other than what they believe.

    That said, keep in mind that many people here are Americans and are quite nice, so raging generalisations are offensive.

    But off the boards and to world politics. Countries have to be very careful about how and why they disagree with the U.S. government. And the "You are with us or against us" mentality certainly doesn't help.
  6. lavjoricso Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2001
    star 4
    I agree thegreatyoda,totally !!!

  7. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    Okay since everyone on here hates me because of the way I am I think this would be a good time to show you my qualities by posting exactly where I fit in your categories.


    PERSON 2: 9/11 was awful!


    PERSON 2: Well, you don't want terrorists to get past security do you? Remember what happened on September 11th. If we were more vigilant we would have been ready.



    PERSON 2: Ourselves? You're saying that 9/11 was our fault.

    PERSON 1: No, but you've got to admit that some times our country is pretty arrogant to the rest of the world


    This parts sum me up. Anyway you can question and not like some policies that our government does. Heck I don't like the fact that Bush is taking it easy on big business and we need to throw the book at these Top Executives of Enron who took all the money and has a 8 million dollar house and can hide behind the 5th ammendment which is BS if you ask me. However I must question anyone not wanting tighter security and homeland defense. We could have avoided Sept 11 if we would stop screwing around and have our airports safe, our borders closed and we had better inteligence as to what was going on. It's time we start killing more suspected terrorists abroad so that problems don't get out of hand. We must have our guard up 24-7. Sorry but the way the enemy is and the way they hide requires us to tighten things up, and the only way to do it is to have eyes in the back of our heads.
  8. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    Why do all these people from other countries feel the need to criticize America so much? You don't see us criticizing your country. If we were, you would probably get defensive as well. It is pretty hypocritical as well, many people tell us America should mind its own business and stay out of other countries conflicts, well what do you call telling America what to do? Isn't that also getting involved with other countries business?

  9. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    Americans don't criticise other countries?

    Please don't say things such as this [face_plain] It cannot be true simply from the generalisations it makes!

    I often hear my country criticized by Americans (and other countries too). Yes, I feel defensive, but most of the time I just shrug it off and think "Eh, they don't know what they are talking about."

    Kit
  10. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    What are some criticisms Americans have made about Australia?
  11. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    Where do I start?

    I do come across them on the board. But I can't think of any at the moment...I'll try and ferret some out for you :) The thing is, I just ignore them. They really don't mean anything to me. So I don't take note.

    However, thus saying, I have come across several verbal criticisms recently. From American's who were visting Australia.

    I was recently told my tourists that "Brisbane has no 'oomph'" and that Australia is boring. I was asked whether we had 'real' food... (the real food one was rather amusing at the time)

    Then we often have criticisms about our army, our government and so forth...

    Kit
  12. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Australia is a cool place. No messed up politics that i can think of.

    I myself have been met with plenty of hostility when making a certain topic questioning wether or not the US has been doing the right things in Afghanistan. Some of the comments made were quite disturbing. Most people were cool though.
  13. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3


    "I haven't come across any on this board"

    That is my point.

    "I was recently told my tourists that "Brisbane has no 'oomph'" and that Australia is boring. I was asked whether we had 'real' food..."

    Thats the best you got? [face_laugh] No offense, but we have a thread here saying that us using the bomb was the same as 9-11. You got people omplaining that your cities aren't that exciting... for one thing that isn't necessarily a bad thing, calm can be a good thing. They are smaller cities aren't they?

    "Then we often have criticisms about our army, our government and so forth..."

    Like what?
  14. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    If you notice I edited it, because one of my friends pointed out that we do have them.

    What do we get criticised for?

    The army: The state of our army, and that fact that somehow our troops 'don't help' (a board criticism I've heard if you must know). I don't get the last one, Australia has a very good army (particularly our elite squads) and we do help America frequently. In fact we have troops over in Afganistan right now...so how we can't be helping, I do not know.

    Our government: How many times have I heard American's tell me that we should be a republic and how could we possibley still be part of the Commonwealth. I often hear American's laughing at the way our Prime minister sucks up to bush (Okay, so we laugh and frown at that too, so 'muh')

    Our Cities: Okay, if I came up to you and started bashing your home town how on earth would you react? I found the 'oomph' comment amusing at the time, (Particularly since they then told me what they had actually visited).

    Once again, the thing is, I don't care. I don't even know why I posted the critisms that I have heard of Australia. I was merely pointing out that you can not generalise something such as the fact that You don't see us criticizing your country . In other words that American's don't criticise any other country.

    In my honest opinion, I do think that many of the "American bashings" (as they have been called) have gone waaay too far. I am a critic of America on occasion, but then again I am a critic of England and Europe and often my own country. I see nothing wrong with criticising another country (not the people, but their policy and behaviour) as long as you can back it up.

    Kit

    Edited: For clarity
  15. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    In my experience, the only criticisms from Americans about other countries have been in retaliation to irrational comments made by people attacking America.

    Edit: I am speaking about this board.




  16. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    "I see nothing wrong with criticising another country (not the people, but their policy and behaviour) as long as you can back it up."

    Well, people that are so quick to criticize America at the moment should stop and consider what we are going through right now. This is probably not the best time to be laying that stuff on us. You need to consider the fact that in America at the moment we hear warnings about possible terrorist attacks 24 hrs a day on the news. Such as a possible "dirty bomb" going off in one of our cities, biological weapons, a possible full nuclear weapon detonating in a major city. These are all possbilities right now. Simply for the fact that we are Americans. Just try to be a bit more sensitive, try to imagine what it is like for us at the moment.
  17. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Plenty of countries have been suffering from terrorism for years. Try dealing with that sort of paranoia year in, year out. I live in Ireland by the way.

    I remember very clearly what it was like in my college when the whole of Britain was required to take a few minutes of silence. It was extremely emotional, and we don't even live in America! But something very unexpected happened. When the tutors began the silence, one of the students in my class spoke out! He started shouting out loud about the place something along the lines of "so the Americans have finally got a taste of what we've been getting for years, and all of a sudden we have to feel real sorry for them? When was the last time America had a nation wide silence for any of our tragedies?" And there has been alot of them. He kept going on and on and on, he was really angry. The tutors couldn't keep him quiet. I realised he had a very important point. This was the first time anything like this has happened to the US. Its been happening to us for years. The most sympathy we've ever gotten from the US is a number of presidential visits i can't even count fully with one hand! I felt that student's anger.
  18. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    Not to get off track but it wasn't the fact that there was a terrorist attack in the US, it was the amount of damage and deaths. Granted it is more shocking to us because we live here and it's unheard of here, but when was the last time any country had a terrorist attack that had a death toll over 50? As opposed to 3000, plus at the time the death toll could have been as a high as 20,000. We just didn't know for sure, just that it was going to be bad either way. We're hardly the only ones that have dealt with terrorism, but your classmate did not think the whole situation through before disrespecting the people who died that day. It's his right, but I think he was being rather self centered, and selfish.
  19. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    You have to consider kaine that we have violence in our country as well. Most of It doesn't fit under the label terrorism necessarily, but every country has these things. Don't act as if the USA is some utopian society where we don't have violent crime.We have a similar tension between blacks and whites in this country, drive by shootings racially profiling by police officers. I don't hear about other countries having a moment of silence for these things.

    I guarantee you though, if there was a huge incident like 9-11 that happend in your country you would have overwhelming support by the US. Moments of silence, and every bit of military support we could muster. There is no doubt in my mind about that.



  20. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    Thats wrong. You don't have to live for America, or support it. But that doesn't mean you have to be an anti-american.
  21. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Granted it is more shocking to us because we live here and it's unheard of here, but when was the last time any country had a terrorist attack that had a death toll over 50?

    Well yeah something like that, but that's one terrorist attack. There were more before. Lots more...
  22. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    Quick, someone name a sea faring disaster.
  23. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Quick, someone make a hollywood movie about it.
  24. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    tenor, The Carnival cruise ships Tony Danza Spectacular.

    ;)

    Kaine I would ask if you had a moment of silence for any of the school shootings that have taken place? Or the Oklahoma City Bombing? Maybe the First World Trade Center bombing?

  25. Sarajevo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2002
    star 3
    Sea disasters.

    Bitanic
    Lusitania
    Indinapolis(sp?)
    Titanic
    Energy Determination
    Dona Paz
    Victor
    :)
    I thimk one reason for the USs action is we have never really had to deal with this. America (in the eyes of the people at least) has never really failed. :)
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