"IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH AMERICA YOU MUST HATE IT"

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by thegreatyoda, Jul 10, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AJA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    My point, though badly phrased was basically:

    I hate America, but I don't hate Americans.


    Well, here we have a thread that tries to make the argument that criticizing America doesn't mean you hate it, and then we have somebody whose whole point is that they do hate America. Couldn't invent this crap if you tried.

    If you hate America, leave. Period. End of story.

    Goodbye.
  2. imzadi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 4
    I'm sorry, but people are entitled to hate America if they like. As it was phrased, she said that she hates America, I'm guessing that means the government or the institution of America. They don't have to leave. There is a difference between feeling something and doing something about it.

    That said, please do not miscontrue, I don't hate America. I disagree with and dislike certain elements of America's policies and attitudes, but that does not mean I hate America.

    A while back there were some questions about America insulting other countries. The general depiction of Australians in American made cartoons, movies, television shows are just plainly insulting. The Simpsons episode while clearly a parody made fun of things that we are very proud of. The "Rocko" cartoon (I'm not sure if that's the entire title) is also insulting.

    Obviously, though, I can't speak to what people from other countries would find offensive.
  3. AdmiralZaarin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2001
    star 5
    No matter how small or weak you are, if you show you're not afraid to fight, most time bullies will back off. If they weren't cowards they wouldn't be picking on people who think are no threat to them.

    I'm not attacking you, but for the life of me I don't know why teachers tell you that bullies are cowards. I don't see many cowards who sadistically beat up kids...and if you fight back it'll probably get worse, not better.

    I was told by one teacher once that a couple of my bullies had hard home lives and I should be ashamed for wanting them to be suspended, and or fighting back against them.

    Hard home life shouldn't make you impervious to suspension. Even though it is. [face_plain]
  4. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    AdmiralZaarin

    Don't change topic, we already are threatened by LordBane :p

    If you hate America, leave. Period. End of story.

    why? that is so stupid, just because a person dislikes the American goverment doesn't mean you have to leave the country...

    Obviously, though, I can't speak to what people from other countries would find offensive.

    I think people do find it annoying... But that's the wrong thread. It should be Why do they hate us? thread :p
  5. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    1. If you hate America, leave. Period. End of story.

    2. why? that is so stupid, just because a person dislikes the American goverment doesn't mean you have to leave the country...

    Sure, you don't have to leave, but why wouldn't someone who hates America want to stay? I suppose the same person would have to hate every other country in the world even more.
    [face_mischief]
  6. PeterTutham27 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 4
    America got to where is was today from debate and disagreement. It is America's diversity and willingness to evolve that has made it great, and flourish.

    But before any person says that America is evil, and the wish to change the entire government to help minorities, or to communism, or anything like that, I hope that they take just a second to realize that thousands of Americans died so that they could have that freedom of idea and expression. Realize that America has made a lot of sacrifices, and don't throw the baby out with the bath water...
  7. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I suppose the same person would have to hate every other country in the world even more.

    ....

    no comment [face_plain]

    I hope that they take just a second to realize that thousands of Americans died so that they could have that freedom of idea and expression. Realize that America has made a lot of sacrifices

    True but USA isn't the only country where thousands of people sacrifised themself for their ideas and goverment

    Look the US-goverment has some flaws and most of the time I don't agree how they act.
  8. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    C'mon! I mean it wouldn't be that hard.

    Look, if I were to hate living in Michigan, I'd pack my things and move to Arizona or something. My point is quite simple. Note that I am not agreeing that a person has to leave. They are certainly welcome to wallow in self-pity and unhappiness, fully knowing that Canada and Mexico are right there, waiting with open arms. Also note that this is tongue-in-cheek, but really, if someone felt so strongly as to "hate", well...

    Being tongue-in-cheek, I give you a [face_plain] in response to your [face_plain].

    Ptttttt. :p
  9. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    Well it's naive to think that what's right for Europe is instantly right for the US. And vice versa. In Italy the police walk around with semi-automatics in plain sight and everyones cool with that. Here if the police walk around with semi-automatics, people will cry "foul", "oppression" etc. It's two different mindsets and two different cultures. Even in Europe there's vast differences between countries. The same could be said about the individual states here.

    And the point of asking about shipwrecks (before the bosshole started cracking his whip) was that the disasters we focus on are the most horrific and involve the most loss of life. Regardless of nationality. 9/11 was horrific and involved a significant loss of life. Not to mention that people from almost every nation did die. Even some from the UK and Ireland I believe.
  10. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I give you a [face_plain] in response to your [face_plain] .

    again [face_plain] I did that face because what you said was a bit being arrogant... :p

    Well it's naive to think that what's right for Europe is instantly right for the US. And vice versa

    I've to agree with that one...
  11. AJA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    There is a difference between feeling something and doing something about it.

    Indeed. It's the difference between acting on your words and just spewing a bunch of BS in the hopes that you can annoy everybody else into caving in to your unpopular views.
  12. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    Arrogant? No, no, no. You miss my point (silly as it is, I admit :D).

    Say it is fall, and Jake is sitting on a park bench in the sun. He is very hot, and he hates it. Unfortunately, if he goes into the shade, the fall breeze will make him feel too cold - worse than the heat. Jake could go into the store across the street, but they play terrible music on the speakers - worse than the heat and cold...

    That's all I meant. I'm not denying it is a silly point, it's just that hate is such a strong term...
  13. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I'm not denying it is a silly point, it's just that hate is such a strong term...

    That's why I'm saying dislike :p
  14. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    I have opened up a topic called "Violence and Youth" for those of you that wish to continue the off topic discussion in here earlier.
  15. Jirin_Raman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 4
    If you hate America, leave. Period. End of story.

    Why has this line become more commonplace 9/11? Are we not entitled to the right to speak freely about our country? Had we never questioned the practices of institutions, this nation would never have come to be. We would still under the rule of Great Britain. Why must we take what we are fed by the Gov't and smile? Is it a requirement of being an American citizen to stand in the streets after your workshift and wave an American flag, yelling to your fellow man "I love America, it is grand. Speak no evil of my country". Speaking against the nation's practices does not make one a "Commie", a "traitor", nor should it be grounds for one to leave America's soil.

    One a related note: Do you notice we are so prone to combat one another in this "post 9/11" world, whether on policy or ethics? Why did it take something to happen to U.S. citizens to make certain Americans begin to question the ways of the world?
  16. Gutter_Monkey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2001
    star 3
  17. yodafett999 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    You can disagree with something, hate it, and still recognize that it's the best place for you to live at the present time. You can also recognize problems and, rather than leave them the way they are and turn tail and run away from them, you can stand in your ideals and beliefs and try and change things.

    Finding a better way is what this country is all about.
  18. Gutter_Monkey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2001
    star 3
    Again, I very much agree.
  19. AJA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    Why has this line become more commonplace 9/11? Are we not entitled to the right to speak freely about our country?

    I'm not an agent of the government issuing an official order. I'm simply applying logic to the statement. If you hate the country, have the guts to stand up for what you're saying and leave. Otherwise, I'm saying you are a whining hypocrite, and you should spare the rest of us the histrionics.

    Finding a better way is what this country is all about.

    Not if it means abolishing the Constitution- and if you truly hate the American government, then you must surely hate the Constitution which defines it. If that's the case, you are not a "good American" who simply wants to make things better, you are the enemy of the American people.
  20. yodafett999 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    AJA, tell that to anyone who protested for Civil Rights.

    Or anyone who fought to allow 18 year olds throughout the country to vote in federal, state, and local elections.

    How about the people who fought for a Presidential term limit?

    By your statements women still shouldn't be allowed to vote and slavery should still be in effect.

    Change, and in the case of most amendments, progress. It's usually a pretty good thing.
  21. AJA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    Amending the Constitution through the process set forth within it is fine. Seeking to alter or do away with any part of the Constitution through any other means is an act of war against the United States.

    I like to be clear about which side of that line people are on.
  22. imzadi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 4
    There is a difference between feeling something and doing something about it.

    Indeed. It's the difference between acting on your words and just spewing a bunch of BS in the hopes that you can annoy everybody else into caving in to your unpopular views.


    If you are referring to me you are wrong. If you are not, I apologise for misunderstanding.
  23. AJA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    I was referring to JediLeiaSolo.
  24. yodafett999 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    AJA, protesting the government is a way in which to start the amendment process.

    I do agree that as long as they are following through and honestly trying to change things then there is nothing wrong with it but if they are protesting just to protest, with no real plan of attack or idea of what they hope to accomplish, then they are just wasting time and resources.

    It's not that cut and dry to some though. Many people look at their criticism of the government the same way they look at their criticism of movies or music. You can hate a certain part of something and still enjoy it overall. Or you can hate the whole thing but not walk out on the show in the hopes that it will get better.

    Either way it is their right to critique what they see and fight for changes where they see they need to be made.

  25. imzadi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 4
    I'm sorry. :)

    I'm curious, is the only prescribed way of changing the constitution adding amendments? Can the constitution itself be changed?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.