JCC If you don't believe in free will, you are bad and should feel bad

Scanning over these Turing machine descriptions, it's too complicated for me and I don't understand the relevance or why my imaginary robot would need to conform to the theory... It might well do and I just don't get it. I can see lots of similarities to what I'm describing, there's crossover, but, yeah, I don't get it. My consciousness would probably be easier to emulate than yours.

We've made advances in modelling neurons, and there's Blue Brain and more exciting stuff on the way. Youtube is full of cockroach robot videos. It's all happening! I'm not maaaaaaaaaad....

 

Well, the thing you're specifically talking about is what's called a non-deterministic Turing machine, which is a fancy way of saying "It's a lot like a Turing machine with some probability algorithms." They can be modeled with the universal Turing machine - which is the litmus test. So you'd need a Turing mappable brain for an NTM to work. And to clarify - I'm not objecting to the possibility of AI (Okay, I've got objections, but they're rooted in some of the weirder and more esoteric parts of my already weird and esoteric subsection of my field), I'm objecting to the very specific manner in which you're proposing to simulate an AI, specifically because it's one of these NTM dealies.

In other words - I'm pretty sure we just got in a long argument because I wasn't thinking "Oh, right, I should clarify my terms because not everyone has studied logical systems and will instantly know what I'm talking about." Slave to my own small reference pool.

 

It's okay, Ramza. Happens to me all the time. Someone in an IRC once said "RDR" referencing Red Dead Redemption but I said "you mean r dr dtheta dphi!"

No one laughed.

 

Thing is, if the functions of a brain don't correspond or translate to the workings of a Turing machine, that just means it's not useful to use the workings of a Turing machine to explain it. It's still a finite and bounded eletro-organic system which, once understood, could be emulated or simulated. Nothing you've said gives me reason to think otherwise. Not sure what the issue is, since we are working towards it anyway.

 

Right, which is why your proposed model doesn't work, because you literally described a type of Turing machine.

You'll note that on the preceding page I did concede a different model could work. My objection is not to the concept, it's to the implementation method. I don't really know how else to explain.

 

I would've laughed.

 

What I described was a lot more vague than a Turing machine. Seems like you're finding fault to make yourself feel better about being a flesh robot.

 

im more of a sex robot, personally

 

So, no, what you described is a Turing machine. You are free to continue to ascribe my objections to some non-existent desire on my part to not be a meat machine, even though I am literally a mathematician who thinks that we shouldn't arrive at any results for which we have not firmly established a logical precedent and consequently my entire job consists of trying to be a meat machine. However, such a train of thought does not magically make your suggested apparatus not a Turing machine, does not magically make the Turing mappability of the brain a resolved question, and does not change the fact that you are ignoring my concessions in favor of constructing some kind of weird new age spiritualist strawman.

 

All right, Mr Logic.

 

ramza is a robot intelligence trying to hide the fact that sentient robots can exist so his race isnt threatened by discovery and eradication by the Fleshy Ones

 

I'm pretty sure a bunch of people on here are robots. Wocky is a slightly quirky AI; Ramza is HAL from 2001, and Jabbadabbado is Marvin the paranoid android. Even is probably the kid from AI.

 

beezel is some sort of digital homonculus born from the ashes of geocities

 

beez is organic. Come on, Rogue, what hope does our future have if people can make that?

 

thats the point, ender. we dont have any

if you want a picture of the future, imagine a beezel thread, perched at the top of the forum. Forever.