If you got a job (on TPM) working with the creator of Star Wars would you speak up?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by hawk, Nov 3, 2002.

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  1. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    Of course, that apparently didn't stop Guinness from signing up for the next two SW flicks, now did it? Gotta kinda wonder what your sources are on this one...
  2. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Guinness's own words.
  3. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    Was this before or after he almost walked off the set?
  4. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Marcia suggested disposing of C-3p0, but Lucas demurred

    [face_shocked]

    And right he was, then.
  5. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Was this before or after he almost walked off the set?

    Huh? He said it in an interview about 5 years before his death, or maybe more. I don't quite remember.

    Here's a link to an article which references the interview in a British magazine; he expressed quite a few anti-SW sentiments during that interview, apparently.
  6. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    Well both sources contradict. I am inclined to agree with the one with Marcia suggesting it. I have read that Guiness enjoyed making ANH and thought GL was a "splendid fellow" and that he "got" SW and explained it to all those who, on the set, thought GL was making a huge mistake. It also doesn't make sense as he did TESB and ROTJ too.


    EDIT: I have another idea. Perhaps Marcia suggested he be killed off and Lucas (or Kurtz) went to Guiness and askes him what he thought or if it was ok. He then told them to kill off his character. That sounds more logical than Guiness walking up to Lucas and saying he hated the dialogue and wanted out. I just don't see that happening considering how well Lucas and Guiness evidently got on.
  7. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    I thought it was common knowledge that Guinness was put off Star Wars after the event, when he realised that it's reputation was overshadowing his lifes work, and he would be forever known as nothing more than Obi Wan Kenobi to practically every little kid in the street...
  8. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    I almost vomited when I watched the short interviews prior to each deleted scene on the AOTC DVD yesterday. And when I saw that Rob Coleman dude bowing before the Emperor Lucas, bah, I vomited action figures for three full minutes.
  9. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4

    [face_laugh]

    Anything rare? I'm still searching for the miscolored disproportionate Snaggletooth with boots.
  10. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    Well, it's definitely miscolored now :p
  11. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, the whole thing is so cheesy. Every other scene is McCallum or a fanboy animator saying , "You know, every day George just comes to the set and he comes up with these awesome ideas! I mean how does he do it?" Then it cuts to George Lucas , on set saying "all in a days work!" or some other such silly line, to make it look like he can make movies with his eyes closed. It makes me want to puke.

    Where are the ideas on the screen? They're lame, stale ideas if you ask me.
  12. Ree Yees Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    That's the exact nature of the problem with the PT.

    GL claims he now has the technology at his disposal to portray all the things of his wild imagination.
    Only that his imagination doesn't seem to be any better than any other normal director's imagination.
    Nothing in TPM or AOTC that made me think, "Wow how did they come up with this?" like I often think while watching the originals.
  13. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    Yep, there are no ideas and yet the whole time they are praising each other and patting each other on the back at what they've "achieved". These guys just seem like idiots if you ask me. Surely, the bottom is gonna fall out of their boat sooner or later. What you reap is what you sow, and all that.
  14. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    From a technical, effects-centered perspective, I believe they definitely are operating with a great deal of inspiration. I can definitely see the visual effects envelope being pushed to a great degree, especially in AOTC. No, it doesn't always work (CGI people riding CGI beasts isn't even CLOSE to looking good yet, as the scenes with the tick cattle and the reek in AOTC showed, and as did the troll scenes in both FOTR and the first Harry Potter movie) but more often than not I'm impressed as hell with what they come up with effects-wise in these PT films. (I have little use for TPM, but it sure LOOKS good).

    Problem for me (and, I suspect, a number of other folks) is that Lucas' attention to characters and dialogue isn't anywhere near up to the level of his attention to detail where his effects are concerned. As I've said before (and certainly after watching the AOTC documentaries) the bit where Lucas has to deal with actors and dialogue and performances is much like the plate of vegetables that Lucas holds his nose and plows through so he can tuck into that big ol' CGI dessert.

    I can't say as I completely blame him for feeling this way... directing actors isn't the easiest thing in the world. Fine-tuning dialogue and getting good performances out of a cast is hard work. On smaller levels (much smaller levels) I've done this before myself. But ultimately it's something that cannot be short-changed without affecting the final production.
  15. ferelwookie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2001
    star 4
    I agree with your take on Lucas and the way he handles actors. The problem is, all of cgi dessert is enough to give us viewers a stomachache! The PT suffers from cgi overload, where the actors are constantly playing second-fiddle to cgi creatures and blue screens. Maybe I'm an old fart, but after a while, I just long for a scene with just some actors ACTING on a SET! The relentless flood of FX in the PT is simply overkill and ulitmately feels mind-numbing to me.
  16. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    >>>Problem for me (and, I suspect, a number of other folks) is that Lucas' attention to characters and dialogue isn't anywhere near up to the level of his attention to detail where his effects are concerned.

    If you substitute "attention to" for "focus on realistic" in both instances, then I'd agree with you 100%.

    (Oh, and "problem" for "consistent element of all the Star Wars films.")

    >>>CGI people riding CGI beasts isn't even CLOSE to looking good yet, as the scenes with the tick cattle and the reek in AOTC showed

    That bugged me in the cinema, but seems to have been vastly improved on the DVD.
    Might just be the smaller screen though... or the fact I've been playing a lot of Vice City lately...
  17. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    >>>Only that his imagination doesn't seem to be any better than any other normal director's imagination.

    Where's the "normal director" who is using his imagination to realise his own vision, write his own stories and at the end of the day make his own films, who you're comparing Lucas to?
  18. Delance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2002
    star 3
    the bit where Lucas has to deal with actors and dialogue and performances is much like the plate of vegetables that Lucas holds his nose and plows through so he can tuck into that big ol' CGI dessert.

    That made the audio commentary BORING. All they talk about is CGI, CGI, CGI. Who CARES.

    The little time they talk about the story is mostly banal, like "here we stabilish fact X". Doesn't matter.
  19. RassyDreas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2002
    star 1
    If I remembered EVERYTHING in TPM and went back to pre-production, I would tell him exactly what NOT to do. Then we would all be sitting here talking aboout what Lucas should have done. ;) Don't you just love life? :D
  20. Adali-Kiri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
  21. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    That made the audio commentary BORING. All they talk about is CGI, CGI, CGI. Who CARES.

    The little time they talk about the story is mostly banal, like "here we stabilish fact X". Doesn't matter.


    Looks to me like you're the ones obsessed with CGI.

  22. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    A group of people obsessed with CGI are noticed and this person is the one truly obsessed?? Weird logic.
  23. Esplin9466 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2002
    star 4
    Well, it took me an hour or two, but I finally got through this whole thread. Please, people, debate some more; I find this fascinating.

    Staying on topic, I personally have not found much wrong with the PT (gasp!!!), especially AOTC. Were I someone working for GL with a position high enough that I needn't fear being fired for speaking my mind, I would have advised him to dispose entirely of the fart/crap jokes in TPM, and to find some better actors. Some really better actors. I didn't find too much fauly with the script, except a couple of Anakin's lines. Although that might've just been because of the delivery... Still, I can't see any child actor making me believe that Darth Vader would go around shouting "Yippee!" IMHO, it was these things which made TPM so...unpleasant for many people.

    Of course, I say this now, but if I'd be able to muster up the courage to say it to George's face is another story...
  24. Ardens_Furore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 4
    I would have asked for more Jar Jar scenes in TPM that could establish sympathy for him. The audience should feel his pain as an outcast, which I don't think many people see. I think his character is spot on for someone like that but not a lot of people understand it.

    Other things I'd change is to have a better space battle and have Anakin consciously destroy the droid control ship.

    But there are things I wouldn't want changed at all. The tone of the droid battle is a good contrast to the droid battle in AOTC, which helps develop the tone/symbolism arc throughout the movies. The underwater sequence hints of symbolism like that found in King Lear, where sea monsters are forced to destroy each other (and that's what the world would become if everyone were evil). That certainly sums up the Sith.
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