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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

If you got a job (on TPM) working with the creator of Star Wars would you speak up?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Phantom Menace' started by hawk, Nov 3, 2002.

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  1. Durwood

    Durwood Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    GL is also against test screening (excpet to spielberg) which I think is sad, because you can learn so much about your work by letting an audience see it.

    He shows it to more than just Spielberg. In fact, for Attack Of The Clones, he invited half-a-dozen renowned directors to see an early cut of the movie and genuinely sought their impressions. From what I know of Lucas, he puts a lot of stock in informed opinions which could be why he doesn't publically test screen his new movies. Makes sense to me.
     
  2. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    I think Lucas made ANH and ESB despite the unconstructive negative feedback. Now, the only difference is that he doesn't have fight past "I don't want it that way".

    If anything, I think the classic trilogy would have been better without the crap Lucas had to put up with from the studios and even his own team.

    You say it would be remiss to not consider what power and money can do to a man. But I think you are just looking for reasons why you didn't like the prequels as much as you liked the classic trilogy. You spend so much energy pointing at all these external reasons why you were let down, and you never once consider the possibility that it could have been you who has changed over the years.

    I was 7 years old when ANH came out and have been a die hard SW fan ever since. I have not been missing that same SW magic in the prequels myself, and truly feel you would find that magic again as well if you weren't so set against them.

    I am sorry you didn't enjoy yourself, and as you have said before, you feel you don't have any control over what you do and do not like. I wish I could change your perspective on it, because from where I sit, you are missing out.

    Lamenting what could have been is not nearly as much fun as enjoying what we actually have. At some point you have to accept what happened, and either enjoy it for what it is, or abandon it for what it is not.

    But dwelling on the negative is just going to bring you down more and more as you wallow in it.
     
  3. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    Of course I would speak up, the problem is; I´d get voted down! ;)
     
  4. JenX

    JenX Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2002
    You spend so much energy pointing at all these external reasons why you were let down, and you never once consider the possibility that it could have been you who has changed over the years.

    I was 7 years old when ANH came out and have been a die hard SW fan ever since. I have not been missing that same SW magic in the prequels myself, and truly feel you would find that magic again as well if you weren't so set against them.


    At the risk of derailing this thread completely, may I ask who this "you" that you keep refering to is? Because you seem to know an awful lot about them. I mean, you know that they have "never once consider the possibility that it could have been you who has changed over the years".

    What you "truly feel" is neither here nor there. You have been repeatedly told by any number of different people that they aren't set against liking the prequels. Are you claiming that you know these people better then they know themselves?


    With regards to Yoda, the lightsabre duel at the end of AOTC is hardly proof of Yoda's mastery of the Force. In fact, he wastes a whole lot of time and energy on utterly pointless twirls and spins and doesn't manage to land a single blow. Meanwhile, Dooku deflects everything that Yoda throws at him and achieves his primary goal (returning to his master with the Deathstar plans). So I'm still calling this one 1-0 to Dooku.

    And, on topic, I think that GL is perfectly right to surround himself with yes men. He's the producer and the director...he wants and needs people around him who will do what he says and not second guess him. He wants to put his vision on screen. Good for him!
     
  5. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    You guys. If you wanted to like the prequels, you could. You are the only thing holding yourselves back, no matter who you try to blame externally.

    Actually, it was more aimed at Hawk. In the years I have been reading his posts, he seems to dwell on the negative to the point where I can't tell if he likes anything about them.

    Perhaps that's just due to my perspective brought on by an endless spout of negativity from Hawk. Maybe if he spent more time celebrating the things he liked instead of always embarking on this "crusade" to figure out who aside from himself is responsible for his being let down by the prequels, I would have another perspective of him.

    You like the prequels? Then that's great. You guys just could have fooled me is all.
     
  6. JenX

    JenX Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2002
    You guys. If you wanted to like the prequels, you could. You are the only thing holding yourselves back, no matter who you try to blame externally.

    Oh for...

    So, does this wonderful philosophy of yours extend to works created by people other then George Lucas? Do you berate yourself everytime you see a film you don't like or read a book you didn't like? Ever eaten a badly cooked meal? Do you blame yourself or the cook? Because you could like it if you wanted to...

    I'll have to check your posts. I wonder what your opinion of other films are, and whether you apply this philosophy to those films too. I'll be very disappointed if I find you making negative comments about other writers/directors/actors/external factors rather then yourself...

     
  7. Patrick Russell

    Patrick Russell Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1998
    Gomer, still on the same, tired "You all dislike the PT because you WANT to dislike it" trip, eh?

    Oy...
     
  8. royalguard96

    royalguard96 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Damnit, I am so sick of these obviously basher-oriented threads. If you guys hate the movies so much, GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!

    The only thing Marcia Lucas deserves credit for is being a gold-digging cheater.

    Gary Kurtz overstepped his bounds as a producer, and was let go.

    I would be honored to work on the best fantasy-space story ever told. It's a shame the vocal minority has to try and ruin it for the real fans.
     
  9. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    Damnit, I am so sick of these obviously basher-oriented threads. If you guys hate the movies so much, GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!

    And I'm sick of people who don't know how to behave themselves properly and politely on an internet message board. Play nice or I'll give you a time out.
     
  10. Rebellion

    Rebellion Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2002
    AOTC couldn't be more different. The first hour and a half is essentially a murder mystery. That's one of the biggest reasons AOTC is by far my least favorite Star Wars film. I love Star Wars because it's about the little guy fighting bravely against a tyrannical empire. And that was missing for so much of the film in AOTC.

    Lucas has tried many new ideas in the Prequels and people put him down because of it? I'm not referring to you cbjedi but to the general basher side so no insulting is intended. Lucas tried new ideas like Podracing which some people complained looked "cartoony", Lucas tried Politics which some people complained was "boring" and Lucas tried to have a famous who-done-it mystery at the beginning of Attack of the Clones to which some people complained was "Not Star Wars".

    If the Prequels were exactly the same ideas and views like the Classic Trilogy, would some people be happy? I don't think so. Again this post is not intended to insult anyone.

    Why are there so many negative threads about The Phantom Menace on this forum? Because the basher side are right? Or that the forum has been taken over to the dark side? Time has already told this to me. And to top it off considering some of you despise the Prequels with all your heart, why must you attempt to make everyone despise the Prequels so much and give all negative instead of some positive posts? Why post all negative here? That is what the Bashers Sanctuary is for, is it not?

    Again this post was not intended to insult anyone.
     
  11. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    But it was off-topic. Keep it germane, and avoid those generalizations.
     
  12. Rebellion

    Rebellion Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Lucas has tried many new ideas in the Prequels and people put him down because of it?

    But it makes logical sense. And don't tell me you haven't seen this type of thing on this forum.
     
  13. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    The recurring theme I have seen on these boards is that no one (bashers/gushers/mushy-middle) wants a rehash of the OT. Everyone I've encountered is glad that Lucas is trying new things, but the criticisms lie in how he chose to realize these new things.

    I have seen criticisms of the podrace for being cartoony, and I agree with many of them, but that is a criticism of how it was realized, rather than the concept.

    I have yet to see a criticism of the political study, and I've been here a while.

    The critique of the "murder mystery" isn't in this forum, to my knowledge, and AOTC isn't my forum, so that response is best applied elsewhere.

    Further, Basher A and Basher B are not interchangeable or identical - taste is subjective. Hence, it is possible to hear from Basher A that the political subtext is unnecessary and/or simplistic, while Basher B may enjoy it and label it complex. Simply because one happens to profess a particular opinion it does not require all of the rest to agree with it. Suggesting contradictions in interpretation (as others have done) is nonsensical unless there is some further epistemic claim being made (e.g., the bashers are a hive mind that must parrot the same opinion), which is obviously false.

    Now, get back on topic and stop spamming this thread.
     
  14. Patrick Russell

    Patrick Russell Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1998
    See, I always expected stuff like murder mysteries in the PT. It goes along with the way Lucas always described the PT as far back as the early '80s... "cloak-and-dagger" stuff as opposed to rollercoaster-type action. This is why the cheap, "lighthearted" kiddie humor seems so out of place to me... because there IS that element of cloak-and-dagger to he PT, but it's almost as if Lucas spent so much time watching Barney with his kids that he forgot that that treacley sort of garbage isn't the only thing kids can get into, and he was afraid that kids wouldn't like a cloak-and-dagger flick unless it had loads of cheap kiddie humor in it. So a lot of the humor seems really gratuitous and tacked-on for that reason.

    My advice to Lucas (had I been working for him, to get back to the thread topic) would have been "Man, go back and watch the original Star Wars a few times. I mean the original edit... the one that made 8 year-old kids go NUTS back in '77 with no buildup or marketing or fart jokes whatsoever. Get back to basics. It worked then, it'll work now."
     
  15. royalguard96

    royalguard96 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 13, 2001
    I stand by what I said, but apologize for the flaming portion of the post.

    I don't think there was anything to "speak up" for. TPM worked very well as the first chapter into a greater story. We established Anakin as a talented, yet precocious boy who has great potential. We established Obi-Wan as a straight-laced Jedi Knight who carries with him a determination not to disappoint his fallen master. We established the Sith as a viable threat to the Jedi. We established Padme as a strong leader of her people. We saw how Palpatine maneuvered everyone to get himself elected to the head of the Republic. The CGI effects were groundbreaking, and took the next step forward with AOTC. We saw a galaxy much different than the one we know in the OT, and it's supposed to be that way. If everything was the same in the PT, the OT would be pretty boring.

    To quote PadmeBra: "If only people would look at the PT for what it is, and not what people want it to be..."
     
  16. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    It's still off-topic.

    And Go-Mer, knock off the psychobabble.
     
  17. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    I would post in here but I feel that I would just be yelled at. So I won't. But I will say that if I had a job working on Star Wars on less GL asked me. I would say nothing about what he wanted to do. Why? Because I would not want to be kicked off the moive set.
     
  18. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    I am not engaging in psychobabble.

    But I will make sure I don't start now.

    If I didn't like a movie and I went to that movie's fan site and camped out for years after the fact and did nothing but complain, I would expect the fans of that film to wonder what I am doing there.

    I am not berating anyone, I am not saying you have to be "mental" to not like it. I am just saying you don't have to put all this energy into not liking something. And if you are going to try and place "blame" for why -you- didn't like a film that many others did, then you have to consider your contribution to your being let down as much as everything else you guys like to point at as "the reason" you didn't like parts of this film.

    Art is a two way street of communication.
     
  19. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    I am not engaging in psychobabble.

    But I will make sure I don't start now.

    If I didn't like a movie and I went to that movie's fan site and camped out for years after the fact and did nothing but complain, I would expect the fans of that film to wonder what I am doing there.

    I am not berating anyone, I am not saying you have to be "mental" to not like it. I am just saying you don't have to put all this energy into not liking something. And if you are going to try and place "blame" for why -you- didn't like a film that many others did, then you have to consider your contribution to your being let down as much as everything else you guys like to point at as "the reason" you didn't like parts of this film.

    Art is a two way street of communication.


    First, that is psychobabble, because you're fiating both motivation as well as receptive capabilities upon those who weren't enchanted with the film, which is a big no-no.

    Second, art isn't a two-way street. It's a means of self-expression by which one person (or group) attempts to convey a particular concept, narrative, or experience to another person or group of people. The means by which this is done varies upon the medium and the style employed. By it's nature it is one way.

    Third, blaming the viewer for their disappointment is quite simply ridiculous. You don't like Alien 3, therefore it's your fault. I don't like The Scorpion King, therefore it's my fault. That's complete and utter nonsense.

    Fourth, this is hardly an original argument. You've been spouting this little pet theory for nearly two years. Time doesn't not create truth, nor does it make it acceptable behavior. You know it gets posters and moderators riled up, and you do it anyway. That is unacceptable.

    Cease and desist.
     
  20. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999

    [b]Quixotic-Sith:[/b] First, that is psychobabble, because you're fiating both motivation as well as receptive capabilities upon those who weren't enchanted with the film, which is a big no-no.[hr][/blockquote]No I am not.[blockquote][hr][b]Quixotic-Sith:[/b] Second, art isn't a two-way street. It's a means of self-expression by which one person (or group) attempts to convey a particular concept, narrative, or experience to another person or group of people. The means by which this is done varies upon the medium and the style employed. By it's nature it is one way.[hr][/blockquote]Art is nothing until the communication to the viewer is made. Without interperetation, there is arguably no art.[blockquote][hr][b]Quixotic-Sith:[/b] Third, blaming the viewer for their disappointment is quite simply ridiculous. You don't like Alien 3, therefore it's your fault. I don't like The Scorpion King, therefore it's my fault. That's complete and utter nonsense.[hr][/blockquote]No it isn't. In fact, if it were "just" the film's fault in those cases, then nobody would have liked them. It is partly due to the way either of us reacted to what was given to us on screen. I am not saying it was "all our fault" but it certainly was partly because of the way we reacted to it.[blockquote][hr][b]Quixotic-Sith:[/b] Fourth, this is hardly an original argument. You've been spouting this little pet theory for nearly two years. Time doesn't not create truth, nor does it make it acceptable behavior.[hr][/blockquote]You cannot tell me that my opinion isn't true. Who the hell do you think you are? Time also does not make it unacceptable to offer my own opinion on this matter.[blockquote][hr][b]Quixotic-Sith:[/b] You know it gets posters and moderators riled up, and you do it anyway. That is unacceptable.[hr][/blockquote]And everyone knows this "yes man" slash "Lucas is the reason I didn't like his films and nothing is my fault" crap bothers those of us who like what he is doing, and yet it is done anyway. I wouldnt' call it unacceptable, but in a forum set aside for FANS OF THE PHANTOM MENACE, you can't expect us FANS OF THE PHANTOM MENACE to be silenced, only allowing the constant witch trial that passes for "acceptable" dialogue in this forum to go unabatied.[blockquote][hr][b]Quixotic-Sith:[/b] Cease and desist.[hr][/blockquote]I will continue to stick up for TPM and Lucas until you come over to my house and pry the keyboard out of my cold, dead hands.
     
  21. stone_jedi

    stone_jedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2001
    //grabs popcorn

    //forgets trying to do the cool text



     
  22. ferelwookie

    ferelwookie Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2001
    I will continue to stick up for TPM and Lucas until you come over to my house and pry the keyboard out of my cold, dead hands.

    Since when did bloated old millionares need anyone to "stand up" for them? Reclusive, wealthy white men who hide themselves away in a compound...the truly oppressed in this nation! :p

    Go-Mer-tonic= Chuck Heston? ?[face_plain]

    It all makes sense now!!! :D
     
  23. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Look, I don't mean to defy you Quix, I still don't understand how what I am saying translates into "psychobabble", and I really don't understand the concept that nothing can be the viewers own fault in any way shape or form.

    Sometimes the director can screw up. But at the same time, sometimes the disgruntled viewer just had a poor attitude. Sometimes it's a little of both.

    But to only allow dialogue that places the blame on Lucas and not allow any other potential possibility for the "blame" for whatever problem a given viewer has with the film is pretty one sided for a forum meant for the films "fans".
     
  24. hawk

    hawk Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 3, 2000
    You must see what you are doing Go-Mer. Now great portions of this thread (like most of the threads you write in) are taken up with you arguing with others about your comments about the posters. We are talking about the FILMS not the POSTERS. Everyone else here gets that except you. If you want to continue arguing, take it up via PM, communications or contact another mod who you think will handle things better. But until you get the go ahead to start blaming the posters, cut it out before you get yet another one of my threads closed. Thank you.
     
  25. ferelwookie

    ferelwookie Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2001
    Sometimes the director can screw up. But at the same time, sometimes the disgruntled viewer just had a poor attitude. Sometimes it's a little of both.


    If we are to except the "fact" that SOME viewers may be "disgruntly biased" going into a movie, then we must also except the "fact" that there are many viewers that are "positivly biased" going into a movie. Some people say "I'm GOING TO LOVE THIS MOVIE NO MATTER WHAT." before they've even SEEN the movie. Surely, if someone goes into a movie "knowing" they WILL love a movie, they probably will, although one has to question whether or not their "love" comes from critical observation and what is actually on the screen, rather than the fact that they already were determined to love it PRIOR to even seeing it.

    As far as TPM goes IMO, the director screwed up. Period.
     
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