ST If You Hated TLJ, Is there Anything That Could Happen in IX That Could Redeem TLJ?

From reading the posts, it seems that many here will never be satisfied by Episode IX, because there is no way to "fix" Luke's character arc and death. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. I don't share in the viewpoint, but I can empathize.
For others, I wonder if it would be "better" if in Episode IX, Kylo is fully redeemed and lives, or if killing him off and ending the Skywalker line would be more satisfying.

 

Looking back, I think if Harrison Ford had said ‘thanks, but no thanks’ to reprising his role has Han Solo it would’ve benefited the narrative to a degree. Now don’t get me wrong, I was a huge fan of the character in the Original Trilogy.

But Han in TFA was nothing more than what’s been described as a ‘victory lap for the character’.
He could quite easily have been written out, and that would then have afforded far more narrative time for Luke. Who’s presence is infinitely more important for the story.

But this is Rey and Kylo’s story though. Not the continuing adventures of Luke Skywalker.
I for one thought the way he was portrayed in TLJ was great. It certainly would’ve been quite disconcerting if he hadn’t changed at all in 30 years..

 

I just want to feel something at the end of IX. If I feel something, ANYTHING, positive, I will consider it a success. I felt nothing at the end of VIII but shock and anger.

I'm not sure they can really redeem the whole trilogy, but by now it's very clear that the powers that be just weren't interested in the same things when creating this story that I was interested in. And I guess that's fine. These movies are just about money now, there isn't a great desire to tell a good story or continue and enrich the themes from the first six movies.

 

Episode IX opens with Luke surrounded by Yoda, Qui Gon, Anakin, Mace Windu.

Yoda: "Work to do, you still have. Sending you back, we are. Limited will your force powers be" (or "force powers, you will not have")
Maybe his time will be limited. (what's with the face palms, at least this crap is free.)

Interspersed with whatever else Abrams cooks up will be scenes of Luke joining the resistance - maybe taking part in the odd minor skirmish. Remember, there's no one bar Rey and Kylo who would recognise him.

The climax will feature Luke going out in a blaze of glory in an X-Wing, taking out *something* while Rey battles Kylo Ren. Lukes X-Wing will be visible from where Rey and Kylo are fighting, at some point she backs away
Rey: "Luke?"
Kylo: "What?"
Rey: "It's Luke - Luke Skywalker"
*He looks in the direction of her gaze*
Kylo: "Skywalker is dead, we both felt it"
Rey: "No, it's him"
Kylo: "And yet I feel him fading, soon you will join him"
*Leias force ghost suddenly appears between them, her arms are outstretched, beckoning*
Leia: "Come Ben, don't dilly dally, I miss you: Grandpa wants you to join with us. Come."
*Anakin's force ghost appears*
Kylo: "No, it's not my time yet..IT'S NOT MY TIME!"
The fight resumes...

There will be various call backs to young Luke - "red 5 standing by" will be a lump in the throat moment.(cue crying audience members turning to hug complete strangers)



Garbage, maybe - but my kinda garbage.

See what you've done to me Rian Johnson.

 

I think you misunderstand me. I have seen it commented upon by media sources. I have seen the film and Adam Driver shirtless. I understand what the writer/director was trying to telegraph throughout.

And I am saying that despite the articles, attempts to indicate sexual tension (I note that at no other time in Star Wars has a writer/director needed to take anyone's clothes off to telegraph sexual tension), and things ReyLo fans who want to see sexual tension are seeing, I did not see it at all in the portrayal by the actors. If one thing needs to be shown not told, it's sexual tension, and we are getting a whole lot of "told."

 

Honestly, I tried to like TLJ. But I just can't fake it. I have zero desire to go back and see it. When TFA came out, I couldn't wait to go back and soak it in. I have seen TLJ 2 times now. That is it. It just does not have any draw to me.

And before anyone goes off on why for me it really boils down to this:

If what Kylo tells Rey about her parentage is true: then Kylo is the last 1/2 Skywalker, he may be redeemed but it would have to be in an act of sacrifice thereby leaving the Skywalker name gone. But more than that, what is the point of the virgin birth, chosen one prophesy, Luke's redemption of Vader, and focus on the Skywalkers if it was all for naught and "anyone" or nobody saved the day in the end. If this is what happens it sort of makes the prior 7 films like the whole "Canto Bight" subplot. A story that means nothing and goes nowhere.

That really is it for me. I am happy to have SW go off into the direction they are taking it. I actually rather quite like it (anyone and noone can be a hero). However, it does not need to happen at the expense of the Skywalkers and the previous films main story - Chosen one and redemption by the son. The twain are NOT mutually exclusivce.

 

So are you envisaging some kind of Reylo conspiracy where Reylo shippers have infiltrated major media outlets to share Reylo propaganda with the masses? We're at the point where it's clearly not a case of people "wanting to see sexual tension" - mainstream commentators who have no fandom or shipping allegiances are picking up on the sexual tension and writing about it in glowing terms. They weren't merely told about it since most of it is conveyed visually in the film - they saw it unfolding and wrote about what they saw. You may not see it, but that seems to be because you refuse to see it.

 

No, that's not what I'm saying and you know it. Enjoy your movie, I'll hit the ignore now.

 

Well, I hate TLJ, and it (almost) destroyed my childhood (it couldn't there are too many great fanfiction out there), but if I wanted to redeem it, Ep IX should go this way: somehow Rey and Kylo finds common ground (I think the possibility of the romance is there from TFA). Finish this stupid rebels against Empire/FO repetition: Kylo Ren is now the supreme leader of the Galaxy (and they are OK with it, no one ran to help the Resistance), he can even do it well, leadership is in his blood, his whole family is fool of great politicians (his mother destroyed her own career by living a lie), and military leaders. I do not really care if he is to be redeemed or not (and IMO redemption is not about past sins, it is about turning away from them and real will to give penace). I agree, the Force should give Rey a lesson in humility... And I do hope Ep IX wil give the poor kids some new, cool costumes to dress up, come on who wants to be a Porg for Halloween?! And please, restore my faith in SW bad guys, incompetent idiots are for other franchises...

 

MODified: This is not the correct discussion thread for this.

 

My main complain is that TLJ doesn't serve (and perhaps screw up) the ST.
If I think about it as a stand alone movie or as non SW movie, I may not considere it a masterpiece but at last enough entertaining. Nothing more.
That said I only hope ep IX may save something of the idea itself of a trilogy. Don't know if it's possible.

 

I think there's one thing that's essential in IX:

Show that Rey was trained for years as a Jedi prior to TFA, then mind wiped.

This would be potentially game changing for TFA and TLJ.

 

I have many of the same complaints of others regarding TLJ.

The main thing for me was how Luke was portrayed. Nothing can fix that.

The events in the film end with a super lame rag tag rebels vs empire scenario. Rey and Kylo have interesting development, then it's all thrown away by the end. Total waste.

Are we just going to get a watered down and modernized ROTJ for 9?

I cant find myself caring what happens next. Does anyone actually care about these characters now?

 

I assume you mean the Mortis episodes? That's not my interpretation of those, quite metaphorical, episodes. Although that's not to say that your interpretation is not valid. (I shall certainly go back and watch those episodes again.) In which case, I take it you don't have a source from George himself, then.

 

The only thing that could redeem the franchise is a timeskip and basically acting like apart from Luke being dead nothing else revealed in TLJ was a big deal
That's how much damage rian did you basically have to wash your hands of everything in the movie because it was that bad
The resistance is down to a handful of people
the First Order is a joke being lead by an overly emotional idiot
Its all a mess but a timeskip can fix the immediate damage by using time to justify the characters being presented so differently from TLJ

 

I didn't hate TLJ at all... However, I feel as though all the interesting questions I had have been killed off and I can't see where the next film will go...at...all...?

 

Therein lies the difference between us. I feel the same way, and as a result i am more excited about star wars than i have been since May 24th, 1983.

 

Wow, ever since the update I've seen more toxic posts on this site.

I didn't hate the movie at all (maybe 75/100) but I liked TFA much better. I think the humor weighed it down a bit, but I liked Luke's arc and death (though not his final line of "See you around, kid") as well as Rey and Kylo's arcs and even the death of Snoke.

For IX, I'd expand on Maz's character a little more (maybe have her be a former Jedi, Snoke may have been her apprentice once) and have more old actors reprise their roles (Obi Wan, Anakin, Palpatine) if they can add to the story. Maybe Anakin's ghost can somehow bring balance to the Force again from beyond the grave, helping Kylo and/or Rey.

I'm indifferent to Reylo but if I was writing it I'd have them go their separate ways in peace to rebuild their respective orders. Maybe give Chewie and the Falcon one last hurrah, with Lando involved if Billy Dee Williams can and will.

I'd definitely add a conflict between Kylo and Hux, maybe with Kylo turning against the First Order, but leading the Knights of Ren. Luke's return is probably a must for me, and Yoda probably as well.

 

I think people are misunderstanding many of the points people are bringing up. Personally I was quite engrossed in the film--it many ways it was really really good. However that does not mean one can't comment on what they feel did not work or what broke their focus from the picture.

 

Episode 9 can start be making itself and its predecessors non canon.

 

Well, nothing can happen in Ep9 to make ST good. We are 2/3 through it and even "the bad dream" idea wont fix the fact that "bad dream" took out 1/3 of the ST making it ponitless. They pretty much screwed it up.

 

Another idea - explain Rey at the centre of a huge twist, she was Revan'd to lose her memories of the terrible creature that she was, Snoke was her underling, Luke and Ben wiped her mind but could never destroy her, and everything they've done was part of joint plan to attempt to sway this great and terrible being to a new path (hence Kylo "I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it" to Han). Luke and Ben have been playing both sides in an attempt to sway this terrible ancient being with something truly convincing, or else the galaxy itself is doomed. The whole show on the salt planet was to motivate Rey towards taking on the mantle of a hero, the only possible way of redirecting this Revan-like being. The first Jedi texts were intentionally placed for Rey to find, to learn from, perhaps she originally wrote them, however Luke had lost faith in the plan and was considering burning it down, not letting her get those at least. Perhaps Ben really has fallen to the darkside, perhaps not, he may have always seen Snoke as his true enemy, as a disgusting underling which was beneath the true threat. These ancient force wielders were something else entirely, for reasons which may be explored, it's possible that all of Snoke's power was gifted from Rey however.

 

I've got this. It might take me some time to get it all together, but I've got it. I will save the ST. Hope JJ is watching!

 

I'm sure there is a quote around somewhere, either from Geroge or Dave Faloni, but I don't have the time to go looking. And I was more referring to the Yoda arcs. To be honestly, given they are working from George's original notes on the Force, the new canon should be evidence enough, but I'm sure you're cynical about that.

You're argument doesn't make sense on the face of it. The Dark Side is fear, aggression, anger, etc. These can't be destroyed but only put into 'balance' (this goes back to the Yoda arc). So your argument falls apart at the face of it.

Here's the clip of George that someone else asked for: