Amph "If You Seek His Monument, Look Around You" - The Man of Steel and Announced Sequel Thread

Can you demonstrate how this would be so given all we've seen of Clark to that point is his strength, not his speed, not to mention that Clark has no idea how to fly at this point? And bearing in mind Clark's got at best a few seconds to come up with a plan to accomplish this?

 

Seen: run into the maelstrom and rescue his dad, come back.
Not seen: as his dad's getting lifted, run in and jump high and save him by protecting him with his body. Show up "miraculously" some time later. ???? Profit!

Really, there's like a gazillion scenarios. He couldn't necessarily fly then, but jumping really high, heat vision, etc. had all manifested...

 

By 'way', I meant will. It was Kent's dying will.

 

Not to mention he was standing in front of everyone as they watched. For him not to be seen he would have to walk around the overpass, and still have people watch him wondering why Johnathan's son is running away, then super speed to Johnathan, get him to safety, then get back to the crowd and be all 'hey what's going on my dad okay?'

Now that plan is already shot as he had about 5 seconds total to get to his father. It was either publicly use powers, or Johnathan dies. There was no other option.

Smallville's a small town, they already know they had an Act of God with Clark and the bus, his father being saved as he conveniently was gone would not be overlooked.

 

Not really. We've already talked about the 'seen' angle, but one might note that him running into the maelstrom before it gets to Jonathan Kent means he'll be seen by dozens of people. That wasn't acceptable to Jonathan Kent.

For the unseen angle, it pretty much requires that he runs into the maelstrom after Jonathan Kent is hit and then jump with sufficient accuracy to catch Jonathan Kent and then control his flight sufficiently to land at less than terminal velocity when he's in the midst of a whirlwind - all while protecting his father's body. It's as supposeable as your rescue scenarios that they would have failed. And indeed had Clark failed while trying to save his father, that might have driven him not to ever use his powers for good again.

 

I honestly wasn't convinced by the scenario either, when I first saw it. But conceptually, I have no problem with the point the scene is trying to convey.

 

Why would they do against Martha? We can see the government took no such action when he revealed himself, and Smallville was not quarantined at all since people only knew there might be some supernatural being. Actually, if the government tried to such thing on a big town, it would make the opposite effect, let more people suspect there might be something out there. That's why they didn't do it in the movie later.

Just like the school bus accident, no action was taken by the government. Tell me why do you think they would do such thing, then I will explain to you why it didn't happen, why it couldn't happen.

 

He hadn't tried to fly at that time, I don't think he could or needed to fly.

He would not have died if he saved his dad.

he's an adult clearly, so he should have his own judgment on this, if he really thought the same way like Kent did, he would try to save his dad.

 

They were probably going to throw Lois in some CIA blacksite until Superman told them he'd only cooperate if they freed her. The government took no action against him... besides forming an entire task force of tank,planes, helicopters, to guard him and hand him over to Zod. And they were ready to blow Smallville to pieces to stop him when he was fighting Faora.

The difference in their approach was, getting Clark pre Zod arrival they could cover up. After Zod... who has revealed himself and alien life TO THE ENTIRE PLANET... containment is no longer possible, it was preventing an invasion.

The government took no action with the school bus because it could be chalked up as just an act of God. And even that had Johnathan nervous and could easily have attracted government attention if some lucky analyst put the pieces together or some reporter went snooping and found the ship in the barn.

 

Thank you for your insight.

 

Here's the thing, Slowchokeking: if Clark had jumped into the air to save Jonathan, he doesn't get to just float back to the ground. Not when, as you have ever so helpfully if obviously pointed out, he can't control his flight. See, slowing his rate of descent involves use of his flight power - something he has not mastered.

Rather, in this scenario, Clark hits the ground with the terminal velocity he's acquired from dear old gravity and the force of the tornado's winds, accelerating at a constant 9.8 m/s/s not accounting for friction. That's rather a nasty speed to hit the ground with a vulnerable, fragile human in your hands. Clark "protecting his father with his body" wouldn't actually work, because Jonathan Kent would've wound up splattered across his own son's body when he hit the ground due to the kinetic force of his own velocity. You'll notice that when Clark saves Lois he doesn't just put himself between Lois and the ground and then let them both just hit the ground.

 

What does Lois have to do with it? He hadn't met Lois yet when Kent died.
Because they were in emergent situation, a possible alien invasion is there, if he did anything wrong, Zod could have reason to start his invasion.

No they couldn't, it's going to be on newspaper before the government had a clear research to find out what is it. He went in to save his dad, unharmed. Is it true? Is it just some lucky coincidence? How bad was he harmed? They had a long way to go to find the answer: He's alien. And even after that, it would be very stupid to lock up a big town, just let the rumor go, the CIA could even help cover it. Then just take Clark and make sure the Kent couple would not be out of their watch, that's what government do.

Do you honestly think the government would believe it? No, they didn't, but they don't think it's something worthy to do a big research and find it out. Remember someone saved his dad from a tornado had a long way to go with he's alien.

Also, if Clark really care about it so much, why did he use his heat vision to heal Lois?

 

No, please, I'm sure everyone including Ender Sai would be most thrilled for you to demonstrate your intimate knowledge of military, intelligence, and covert agencies so you may set out step by step what a government/military/intelligence agency would do in such a circumstance.

 

This thread is ****ing hilarious.

 

Jonathan wasn't up on the air when he stopped Clark, he could still be seen at that time. Clark was much quicker than most of the humans, it would only take him a few seconds to do it. And why would people even pay so much attention to it? The wind was really big, everything could be blow up and might drop down and hurt them.

More importantly, do you think Clark would have so much in mind, when his dad was about to die, 100% and he might have the chance to save him, based on his personality?

By that logic he should think "Hey if I save the girl with my heat vision she might reveal it, or should I take her to a nearby hospital? No way! So how should I do to save her and not reveal my secret? Oh she's dead damn it."

 

Checkmate.

 

I know one thing for sure, it's very very stupid to arrest hundreds of witnesses if you want to get something covered. It would make the opposite effect actually.

 

Slowpoke, darling, petal, sweetie, we were discussing how Clark was meant to rescue Jonathan unseen. We've already established the only (and unfeasible) way to do that is for Clark to try and rescue him after Jonathan has disappeared into the whirlwind. But I'll take your implicit concession on that for what it is.

As for your practically-unparseable observation I've highlighted in black, that indeed is part of the point. (a) Clark's personality is to listen to his father. He's argued with his father in the minutes ahead of the whirlwind, but that's the first bit of rebelliousness we've seen. He accepts his father's logic: if the world knows who Clark really is, it would reject him, so he should not use his powers openly. (b) Clark has been confronted with a situation he's unprepared for, and he's not thinking too well, no better than any other person confronted with that situation. I think it is clear from the context of that memory sequence -- and let's remember that's all it is, coming from Clark -- that Clark bitterly regrets it happened that way. He probably wishes he didn't listen to his father that time. It doesn't change the validity of the scene as presented. Not. One. Iota.

 

You know this for sure because you've done it before, of course?

 

Must I end you, slowdp4mking?

Jonathon Kent knows Clark isn't ready to be outed to the world yet, in that he's not ready personally to handle it. The world, Jonathon knows, may never be ready.

But it wasn't to stay hidden; it's because it was not the right time to be revealed.

 

We don't know it actually, we saw him grew up as an adult and based on his age, he should have his own judgment. Also he generally obeyed his father didn't mean he would do it in such situation.

So you mean he put himself before his father's life? Do you think it fit Clark's personality?

Clearly not, he did it once during the school bus incident, it was even more emergent and he was much younger. Also after this, Kent surely told him(I remember he said it) not to do, so in his mind he would surely have thought about "What should I do if this happened again?" He's not really unprepared, really.

I've read stuff about it. How did some nations control information.

 

That's still insanely stupid though. Clark had learned to control all of his powers except flight by then and was a grown-ass man, even if only about 20ish at that point.

 

You are incorrect. Clark is 17 in that flashback.

Tombstone shows Jonathon Kent 1951 to 1997.

Superman is 33 in the film, set 2013, meaning DOB in 1980.

1997 - 1980 = 17.

You are incorrect in your assertions, and it's beyond any point of contention. Do not argue this; Clark was not an adult at the time. If you disagree, you are objectively and factually wrong so bear in mind any disagreement will be viewed through that filter.

dp4m is your contention with the death scene that Clark wasn't acting like Superboy?

 

I'm losing brain cells

 

The answer is straightforward: the situations are not comparable except by your Nerd-Fallacy-powered logic. Lois is on her own. Jonathan Kent has been dead for ten years or more.