Amph "If You Seek His Monument, Look Around You" - The Man of Steel and Announced Sequel Thread

For the record, I'm chewing my nails as much as anyone about Zack-who-cares-about-the-theme-or-the-characters-so-long-as-we-get-some-CGI-blood-flying-in-there-Snyder directing my favourite superhero. As if Superman weren't already iconic enough, Donner's original film is one of those films I regard as pretty damn definitive on capturing Superman more or less as intended, which is why it's been hard as hell to make a sequel or reboot it. Hell, even love letters to the film thirty years down the line don't do it justice.

But when it comes to concerns about the Kents not encouraging Clark to use his powers for good, you've got to remember Pa Kent (Glenn Ford in a wonderful casting choice; what's a superhero if not the "adopted son" of old-time Western heroes?) saying this (paraphrasing, I can't remember the line verbatim) in response to Clark's desire to show his powers openly: "When we first found you, we thought that people would try to take you away if they found out you were here. But as time goes on, you get older, and things suddenly get very clear. And one thing I know is that you were put on this planet for a reason. I don't know whose reason, or who decided... (he shrugs with a wry grin) But I do know one thing: it's not to score touchdowns." From memory in the Donner film, Ma Kent doesn't speak to Clark on this topic, only emphasises Clark to remember the Kents and that she'll miss him. And remember the end scenes of the film, where Jor-El's voice sternly demands Superman not interfere with human history at one shoulder, and Pa Kent reminds Clark he's there for a reason. That's about all the contribution the Kents have to the film, or at least to Superman's character. (That, and giving this 10-or-so-kid-when-he-first-saw-Superman a perennial fear of heart attacks after John Ford's last scene... )

Looking at that most recent trailer, Costner's lines (which I'm going to stick my neck out and say it's a great casting choice) doesn't really sound that different to Glenn Ford. Ford's line says Clark's on Earth for a reason; Costner's dialogue just says Clark has to figure out that reason for himself. (The line is that he believes Clark is in the world for a reason, and that "even if it takes Clark the rest of his life, Clark owes it to himself to discover that reason". It's Jor-El who offers the lines about Clark's destiny, about the possibility of a child wishing to exceed society's expectations. That sounds to me like reversing the positions of Pa Kent and Jor-El in the Donner film -- Pa Kent being uncertain or negative about Clark making an impact on the world, while Jor-El seems to be firmly for it. Both sides of the argument are still there.

I've got to say I'm most hopeful not because of the effects, but because of Costner and Crowe's performances just in those clips. They tugged at my heartstrings, they really did. If a director can actually get some actual acting out of Kevin Costner that resonates, he can't screw up the rest of the film ... can he?

P.S.: Copypasta'ing from the RPF, but the first gif is in.



Proves the Internet is actually good for something.

 

That's an awesome gif.

But remember, Donner's Jor-El also wanted Kal-El to have an impact on human society. A big impact at that, he wants him to be "a light to show the way" to how humans can become a "great people". And he says that above all, that's the reason he sent him there for. The 'not interfering in human history' part seems to me to be directly related to changing the past, i.e. it seems to be just a dramatic tool to add defiance to his decision to spin the earth backwards at the end, and provide a compelling reason for why he doesn't do that all the time.

 

I just see it as a slight change in emphasis. Anyway, I'm not quite ready to do anything silly to my wrists yet, based only on the strength of Crowe and Costner's performances.

 

The comments about leading humanity to greatness/neo-Messiah were certainly a part of the Donner film (which is the single best comic book movie ever, Avengers and Dark Knight cannot hold a torch in comparison). Remember how powerful the Superman Returns teaser was, just using the Marlon Brandon narration?

 

That's always been one of my all time favorite teasers. The voice of Brando's Jor-El and the use of the Krypton theme sold me right away, even if the final product failed to live to that level of epicness.

 

That really was such a damn good teaser. And I am still one of those people who liked SR a lot.

 

That remains to this day my favourite movie teaser. And I happen to like Superman Returns as a film as well.

 

I always liked the SR teaser along with the film itself.

 

But only one of them can speak with a vaguely English accent.

 

Except both the Costner and Crowe Robin Hood films sucked.

 

That doesn't nullify the serendipity of it.

 

I pointed that on here weeks ago. Where are my plaudits?

 

Have a like.

 

Reboot Jor-El. More awesome.

 

Incidentally, are we taking sweepstakes yet on whether and how they might reference "Kneel Before Zod" in the film? I mean, if they're going to raise the eyebrow with washing out Superman's name in a burst of static, I reckon there's plenty of room for them to have, I dunno, Zod's girlfriend maybeohcrapmymindjustwenttothedamngutter--

 

Unlike some Jor-Els, he can speak with an Eng - wait, I already made this joke.

 

I know, I was plagiarising you

 

It's funny, a similar notion occurred to me while composing that post: Here I am complaining about stuff most people don't seem to care about, but which is weirdly important to me. People will think I'm the new Wocky!

But hey. If wondering why the yellow portions of the famous 'S' must be smudged with charcoal is an "esoteric" concern, guilty as charged! If caring that the Kents instill Clark with a moral center is esoteric, then neither the fanbase nor the masses understand the character as well as I might have thought. If disliking scales superimposed on a smooth costume is esoteric... well, okay, you probably have me there.

 

I'm with you on the Kents, for the most part. I think that Superman, possibly alone in the superhero pantheon, is one of / the one superhero who shouldn't have shades of grey. I think he really should be, as noted, a "big ... Boy Scout." I understand that the world is moving towards wanting "realism" (if you can call the Batman movies that) and they tried to do this I suppose with Birthright, etc. but I don't feel that our myths and fables (basically the "best us") should necessarily have to follow suit.

I know I may be in the minority and I know plenty of people, my friends included, who feel the opposite -- but that's where I am.

 

Where are the Kents not teaching him morals? They're trying to protect their son, something every version of the Kents do.

 

I think this particular complaint comes from Jonathan seemingly (italics because it's an edited trailer) telling Clark that maybe he should have let a bus full of kids die in the previous trailer..

I personally think that's an editing trick and not what the scene will be about, but I can see where complaints might start coming in. I was jarred by that the first time until my movie knowledge crept in...

 

It'll probably have more to do with Clark protecting his identity, not neglecting to save a bus full of people.

 

Is it bad that I didn't even recognize Costner as Jonathan Kent in that trailer?