If you strike me down I shall become more powerful then you can possibly imagine what was Obiwan tak

During the fight scene between Vader and is former master, Kenobi suddenly told Vader : ?if you strike me down I shall become more powerful then you can possibly imagine?. Well, when Kenobi was killed he guided Luke through the form of a spirit but was by no mean ?more powerful then Vader could imagine?. Here?s my theory of what Kenobi actually meant by that. First of all, let?s point out that Kenobi didn?t try to killed Vader at all, since Obiwan knows that he is the chosen one who is supposed to bring balance to the force? I think Obiwan fought Vader or waited for Luke to appear because he needed is presence to vanish in thin air. It?s possible that Obiwan, as well as Yoda, learned a way to transfer their midichlorians into someone else body when their about to die (we will probably see that in ep.3). So when Obiwan vanished, is midi. (some of his?) were transfer to Luke which gave him a Force boost that allowed him, later in the story, to destroy the Death star with a single shot. So, when Kenobi said to Vader that he would become more powerful then he can possibly imagine, he was taking about his actual power coupled with Luke?s. I also think that Yoda transfer some of his midi to Luke?s when he died which helped Luke with is fighting and not to look like a poor ?debutant? when he faced both Vader and the Emperor. Remember that Luke only had a coupled of hours of training with Ben when he was on the Falcon and about 2-3 weeks (more or less) with Yoda?so he couldn?t possibly face Vader and Palpatine alone !
Any idea about that ?

 

I think you're looking too much into it. OB1's sacrifice was just a way to persuade Luke to continue his training and confront Vader.

 

I agree, looking a bit too much into it. But we're all here to converse and opinionise (is that a word?)

Obi Wan did'nt 'force' Luke into fighting Vader, he was simply the catalyst to set Luke off on his own path toward destiny
and help bring about the prophecy.

He serves as a distraction, the troopers standing guard at the Falcon leave their posts to watch the fight between Vader and Kenobi,
giving our heroes the chance to escape.

The, "...I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." is very true. He is more helpful than alive,
"I'm getting too old for this sort of thing". He is one with the Force and so always with Luke.


It's that whole prophecy/destiny stuff which brings us back every time

 

The word is opine, not opinionise. But good try (I like your English use of the 's' instead of the 'z').

 

Ta for that, I thought I was a bit off there.

 

My interpretation;

Jedi see the Force as an incredible power to serve, viewing it as an ally. Sith see the Force as an incredible power to harness, viewing it as a tool.

Ben knows that Vader wants this power, but in trying to have it for himself he can't see the whole picture.

Ben "lets go" of everything he has become up to that point, and becomes one with the Force. So he *is* the Force. Vader could never imagine giving up everything in an attempt to gain power- hence, "more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

 

Kenobi did become more powerful than Vader could possibly realize, because Kenobi could come back from the dead.

That's pretty powerful, if you ask me.

Then again, too many people confuse "power" with fighting. In that respect, Palpatine was not very "powerful", since the only person he fights is Luke (and he waited until Luke tossed the lightsaber.)

This goes along with my theory that Vader was actually more powerful than Palpatine.

 

"You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I must obey my master."

If Vader is more powerful, then I don't think he knows it...

 

The Emporer did not wait for Luke to throw down his sabre. Palpatine was far too powerful to be concerned about one Jedi with a lightsabre.

 

"If Vader is more powerful, then I don't think he knows it..."

I would agree. This would make sense in light of Lucas' contention that we'll have a whole new outlook on him in the OT.

"The Emporer did not wait for Luke to throw down his sabre. Palpatine was far too powerful to be concerned about one Jedi with a lightsabre."

I will agree that Palpatine did not want to destroy Luke, but Force lightning can be blocked by lightsabers, no ifs, ands, or buts. Palpatine's a one-trick pony, but he certainly knows when his tricks are most effective.

Even Dooku saw the futility in using it twice against Kenobi. The only reason that he used it a second time against Yoda was because Yoda didn't have his lightsaber, but we al know what Yoda did.

Force lightning is the Sith equivalent of a sucker-punch. It isn't even fatal unless you use it for a loooooong time, so if there's more than one Jedi in the room, you don't dare use it.

 

>>>>but Force lightning can be blocked by lightsabers, no ifs, ands, or buts.

If you're saying that anyone can do it because Obi Wan did it, then you're assuming that Obi Wan's Jedi skills had nothing to do with it.
And by the same logic, anyone can block lightning with their hand too, and catch it in a ball.
But that's obviously ridiculous...

 

"If you're saying that anyone can do it because Obi Wan did it, then you're assuming that Obi Wan's Jedi skills had nothing to do with it."

First of all, there's nothing to refute it.
Secondly, if this is not the case, then Luke throwing his lightsaber aside is meaningless.

I can't imagine why Lucas would show us this trick in AOTC, except to contrast it with ROTJ.

And by the same logic, anyone can block lightning with their hand too, and catch it in a ball.
But that's obviously ridiculous...

Then why even come up with such a scenario? Yoda is clearly more powerful than Kenobi, or had you not noticed? ?

Straw-man arguments...gotta luv'em.

[EDIT] 2nd Yoda to Kenobi - I was tired.

 

Yoda is more powerful than Yoda?

"Beat myself in a duel, I could"

 

I think that is really cool due but Lucas does'nt go into that much detail?

I hope he expalins how Obi-Wan is so powerfull maybe we may hear a new insight on how he helps Luke.

This dissapering lark has to be expalined-Qui-Gin will have something to do- ireckon he keeps Padme alive in Ep3 but thats for another forum...

 

>>>First of all, there's nothing to refute it.

There's nothing to back it up either. Do you really think that, say, Han Solo could block force-lightning with a lightsaber?

>>>Secondly, if this is not the case, then Luke throwing his lightsaber aside is meaningless.

Not really- he was dropping his defences, throwing away his weapon and refusing to fight.

Was it meaningless before AOTC came out?

>>>I can't imagine why Lucas would show us this trick in AOTC, except to contrast it with ROTJ.

My theory- to show how much more powerful Palpatine is when he blasts Mace Windu/Yoda/Obi Wan/Anakin/Dooku's lightsaber out of his hand in Episode III.

>>>Then why even come up with such a scenario? Yoda is clearly more powerful than Kenobi, or had you not noticed?

And Obi Wan is clearly more powerful than Luke, so my point stands.

 

Ben's becoming 'one with the force' allowed him to encourage and enform a half frozen Wormie in a Hoth storm, something he would never have been able to do otherwise.

Sounds pretty powerful to me.

 

"And Obi Wan is clearly more powerful than Luke, so my point stands."

So now you think Obi-wan can block Force lightning with his hands?

Fine. Believe what you want. ?

 

>>>So now you think Obi-wan can block Force lightning with his hands?

No- I'm saying that just because Obi Wan can block lightning with his lightsaber, it doesn't mean that anybody can. In the same way that just because Yoda can block it with his hands, doesn't mean anyone can.

>>>Straw-man arguments...gotta luv'em.

#Ahem#

 

It seemed to be the point you were making, missed or not.

If you are going to focus on the point itself, and remove it from the context of the movie in which it is being used, then you're going to miss it.

 

Gotta agree with you there Scott. Vader sees power in terms of the darkside. A true jedi sees power in becoming one with the force, letting go, which is how he can come back. I believe Anakin will need to keep somebody from dying in ep3. Probably himself. He will try to hold onto life but the only way he sees he can get the power quickly enough to do so is to use the darkside, which in turn enslaves and corrupts him. Only at the end , when he understands, does he let go and become one with the force.

 

I read something recently that goes well with that..

I'll bet [Anakin] won't blame himself. He won't blame Obi-Wan, or the Jedi.

He will blame the Force.

It will be the Force that betrays him, at least from his viewpoint. As a Jedi, Anakin is leading a selfless life, without reward, as a loyal servant of the Force. Then, the one time he begs the Force to serve him, it will not. This will spawn feelings of resentment towards the Force.

He will no longer feel obligated to serve it, but rather, he will feel justified to abuse it, to use it for his own advantage.

If the Force will not serve him willingly, he will make it serve him . Anakin still believes the Force can be used as a source of power, but loses his faith that the Force is inherently good, and that it's worthy of his selflessness and sacrifice. This is a personal, selfish belief. Thus, his greed outweighs his compassion, corrupting him to the point where he abandons everything he once believed in. He is then easily seduced by the power of Dark Side.

Intriguing theory, especially in light of the fact that Lucas claims greed was Anakin's greatest downfall.