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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    You humans are all racist.
     
    Gorefiend likes this.
  2. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Only Sith deal in absolutes.
     
    WynnDorvan and Esg like this.
  3. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    You are lucky you didn't say "They all taste the same to me." :p
     
  4. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
  5. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 8, 2004
    Indeed. In Star Wars, there are also pale white guys with red hair! :p
     
  6. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Meh, not wild about Korsin. Not from a diversity standpoint; he just doesn't look like I'd pictured him.
     
  7. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    too young for my taste and different than I pictured him (Saw him more like Rahm Kota f.e. in looks!)

    but he looks more nonwhite than other characters so far.. could be could be hope
     
  8. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Still five out of six very white people.
     
  9. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

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    Jul 8, 1999
    I saw him as Bill Pullman in Independence Day.
     
  10. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    my perfect Korsin was more like the good looking version of Rumplestiltskin from Once upon a Time tv series.

    but Coop... mostly we talk males here. how do you picture the females of the EU? and which would you see as non-white f.e. and how then? curious cause I got very definite looks for my favourite EU women.
     
  11. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Does the search feature work that that site for anyone? Cause every word I typed in doesn't come up. Including "Darth", "Sith", "Luke", and "Jedi". :p

    --Adm. Nick
     
  12. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    There's really not that many pages in there - just skim it.

    Ceiran - like I said in the temp thread, I honestly don't visualize human characters at all 90% of the time. That I had a mental image of Korsin at all speaks mostly to JJM's writing. Off the top of my head, I do remember seeing Jos Vondar as Alan Alda (obviously) and Darsha Assant as Leelee Sobieski (which beats the hell out of what we got).
     
    CeiranHarmony likes this.
  13. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Don't have a facebook, but awesome, Coop - let us know how it goes!

    As to the shoehorning, the reason I'm mostly suspicious of that argument is that it always seems to disproportionately stack the deck. A male character casually mentioning his wife's family causing him stress, not as part of the plot but just as background texture in a scene, is just that - background texture. A male character casually mentioning his husband's family causing him stress is automatically seen as a deliberate attempt to be diverse, and thus, if it doesn't have direct plot relevance, is "shoehorned".

    But honestly, who cares if it's deliberate? Everything in a story is deliberate!

    So I appreciate what they're saying about that, but part of me also thinks it's an easy out. Characters who aren't confirmed as straight don't exist in a state of orientational limbo. Or rather, strictly they may, but practically, as the thread title says, ignorance is bias. A casual confirmation of sexual preference isn't going to destroy the story with its shoehorned irrelevance, but could do a LOT for addressing the issues this thread exists to address.

    So kriffing well start shoehorning in references to remind people that your universe is vast, LFL! ;)
     
  14. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Over twenty-four hours and zero official response to my Facebook post, which I was specifically invited to put there. I get the impression Jennifer has a lot on her plate, but it's starting to feel like they're either disregarding it, or passing it up the food chain.
     
  15. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Given their track record, I know what I'd put my money on.
     
  16. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 16, 2008
    One guy responded. But still, their FB page isn't exactly the best place to post things because of the format. I myself hardly ever bother checking what other people write there, since it's usually either high praise for a book or books or some question that no one ever bothers to answer.

    So unfortunately, post like yours, CooperTFN, get lost among all the fluff.
     
    TheRedBlade likes this.
  17. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    If anyone else wanted to chime in with their support, now might be a good time.
     
  18. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2004
    From the Reader's Companion:

    [​IMG]

    Feel any better?
     
  19. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Seen it. It's better, but she still seems too old.
     
  20. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2009
    ...Oooookay, is that supposed to be Darsha, or the Dark Woman? Because it's hard to tell.

    And I've added my voice in support on Facebook.
     
  21. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Just posted on the Facebook page. Hopefully the post will get an answer if it generates some noise. Still, as Todd the Jedi said, a self-post on the Facebook wall is not the best way to get noticed. I comment on the page fairly frequently, but had never even thought to check what people were posting to it.
     
  22. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Ah yeah Not surprised your post go ignored
     
  23. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I'm not expecting much out of anyone else, but Jennifer told me personally she would respond if I did it this way. It took a bit to hear back the first time I contacted her, so it might just be a while. I refuse to believe she'd outright lie to me.
     
  24. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Maybe not lie, but she is a very busy woman, and might honestly forget about it, especially if diversity is not a huge concern for her.
     
  25. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Maybe give her a friendly reminder at the end of the week? That way you aren't being pushy, but still show that you are serious about follow up to your question?

    --Adm. Nick