Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I'll just leave this here.
  2. Likewater Force Ghost

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    It's just sad the writers really don't do much with Jaina in character development
    Last edited by Likewater, Apr 22, 2013
  3. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    instantdeath likes this.
  4. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    I wouldn't want to mess with that 9 inch action figure. Those things hurt when you step on them.
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  5. Gorefiend Chosen One

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  6. TrakNar Force Ghost

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    I'll mess with action figures. But I draw the line at Legos. They hurt like hell.
    instantdeath likes this.
  7. JediFreac Force Ghost

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    Now you have me embarrassed to admit that I actually have one of these. Her legs seem a little long to be real, but every other proportion is not too exaggerated and the pose isn't creepy. Hopefully the one they are doing for Mara Jade will be the same way.
  8. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

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  9. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Although I've had many qualms with Karen Traviss, I guess I've got to thank her for that. She did bring homosexual characters in the EU, but she did it intelligently by not making in it an issue or a remarkable event. She brought up one guy and mentioned that he was married to another guy. That's all. In a galaxy where interspecies romance is not frowned upon, you've got to wonder why homosexual relationships would be.
    Contessa, Robimus and CooperTFN like this.
  10. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Actually several Human cultures do seem to frown on it, especially in the days of the Empire. As, of all races, do many Hutts.
  11. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    Well, the Empire probably isn't an example of tolerance. The Rebels and New Republic, however, didn't seem to condemn Human-Bothan love.
  12. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    That's because it's too hilarious for them to outlaw, so they prefer just to smile and nod, then be able to laugh their heads off when Daala has left the room. :p
    Last edited by Zorrixor, May 1, 2013
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  13. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Tapani and Corellians (some even frown on anyone from offworld) were apparently not too keen on the Alien relationships thing even in the days of the Old Republic.
  14. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I've never really been into the whole statue thing, but I'll admit it looks pretty high-quality as those things go. But c'mon--"oh, this jumpsuit is so stuffy! I need to air my chest out for a while!" It may not be as bad as this, but is that really the bar?

    That's because humans could fit inside a Bothan costume, obviously.
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  15. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    So would you prefer she wears a Burka?
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  16. Grand Admiral Crumb Jedi Knight

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    @Esg Why can't she just have her jumpsuit on like a normal person? Even the girl doing the video doesn't have it falling off her body as bad as the statue.
  17. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    No one gets my humor
  18. Grand Admiral Crumb Jedi Knight

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    I figured it was a joke, but decided to play along with it a bit.
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  19. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

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    I don't know, inserting gay side characters where their orientation isn't made explicit or commented upon technically counts as being inclusive. But it doesn't really do much to actually open the door to more gay characters because it's so easily ignored. Writers play this coy "look! He's gay! tee hee!" game all the time and it's getting old. Don't get me started on that "gay planet" nonsense.

    This is why I think Apollo and Midnighter from the Authority should be the standard "model" for including gay characters. Make them (reasonably) explicit and give both sides of the couple equal screentime and power. Making one of them an unapologetic, merciless killing machine doesn't hurt either.

    Their relationship is an important enough aspect of their characters that it ended up surviving into the DC reboot of all things. Y'know, the same one that was so self congratulatory about making an established character gay only to fridge the love interest in the second issue?

    I don't think things are going to change for Star Wars until they decide to take that leap and get the foot in the door.
    LelalMekha likes this.
  20. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

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    I couldn't more agree with you, but at least you've got to admit that what Traviss did was a necessary first step. It seems that the Star Wars fandom is quite conservative and doesn't want to be "rushed." See what happened with SWTOR. The same-sex romances with party members that were announced still aren't there AFAIK.
    Last edited by LelalMekha, May 1, 2013
  21. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    All I hear when I read stuff like this is "I didn't care for Goran and Medrit, ergo they don't count". And Apollo and Midnighter's relationship stayed in because DC is on thin ice with gay-positive fandom to begin with; if they had done anything else they'd have been burned to the ground.
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  22. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    Wasn't that more or less an interface issue rather than intent
  23. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

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    I don't really mind Goran and Medrit or even Traviss at all, but it seems the basic inclusivity we keep seeing where it's just like "hey! Here's a gay/POC character! Well, enough of that, back to the straight white protagonist."

    It comes off like writers think that people only want to see "minorities" in media and that's it, and it don't clue in that they also want them to be main characters.

    That's probably part of the problem too, I dunno what the numbers are for LGBT Star Wars fans, but they aren't as vocal as they are in comics and don't rock the boat as much.

    Don't blame 'em, I agree that alot of Star Wars fans are pretty conservative. I don't know how the hell you lag behind superhero comics in terms of progressiveness, but there it is.
    Last edited by Reveen, May 1, 2013
  24. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    My perspective, which I've repeated a lot in this thread, is that main vs minor characters, or protagonists vs antagonists, isn't the important distinction--good characters vs bad characters is. Goran and Medrit were indeed minor in the grand scheme of LotF, but they were minor in the exact way any other characters in those roles would've been, rather they being tokens whose gayness was their defining purpose. It's not commented on in the story because Traviss creates a context--and this is her real contribution to the issue--where no one gives it a second thought.

    Apollo and Midnighter's homosexuality, by contrast, is commented on because they exist in a modern Western context where it's still something that can stick out, and affect how they interact with others. If Jaina met Goran and Medrit and was all like "wow guys, it's so great that you're accepted here!" all that would've done is establish that gays are indeed persecuted in the GFFA after all.
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  25. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

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    On the Jaina issue: I don't have any real issue with her statuette design, or her half-suit appearance. That's a common "casual" design choice for characters depicted wearing flight suits, male and female, and has real-world roots in people who have experience wearing coveralls for lengthy periods of time, such as mechanics and military pilots. Doesn't seem like a big deal, really.


    On the gay Mando issue: They're gay. They're in a relationship. It's commented on. Goran muses on his relationship with Medrit and whether they should have a child together. Characters acknowledge their relationship, and everyone refers to them as a family. The author confirms it for anyone who hadn't quite caught on, and the official Complete Encyclopedia reiterates that fact in a licensed release. This isn't the Dumbledore situation, where there's only vague allusions to a relationship long past that could just as easily be dismissed as acknowledged. It's an integral part of who they are as people, there in the present with their family, and it's officially acknowledged canon.

    But the thing is, no one really cares. It's not the big deal in Mando society as it still is here, which is sort of the point. They're inclusive by nature, no one cares that they're a gay couple, it's normal. Hence the reason why there's no need to keep going back to "Have I mentioned we're gay, lately? Because we're still very gay. In case you forgot." They're just two dudes who love each other and are together and it's just fine. Seems like the ideal way to handle the situation, if you ask me.