Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Robimus Force Ghost

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  2. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

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    Actually, The Black Fleet Crisis did have dramatis personaes --- K-Mac did it differently, though. Volume 1 didn't have one, Volume 2 only mentioned characters who had been introduced in Volume 1, and Volume 3 only mentioned characters who had been introduced in Volumes 1 and 2. For example, Fey'lya didn't show up until Shield of Lies, and thus wasn't mentioned in the DP until Tyrant's Test.

    So, in other words, Nick, all you need to do is Tyrant's Test.
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  3. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I hear people bash Bleeding Cool a lot, but if nothing else, you have to love them for doing things like this.
  4. themetresgained Jedi Grand Master

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  5. Trip Force Ghost

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    in the one era that actually should be human-only (or at least human-mostly) though. sigh.
  6. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    According to what? Also, 4 out of 8 is only one person away from being "human-mostly". :p
    Last edited by CooperTFN, May 29, 2013
  7. Trip Force Ghost

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    me, obviously :p

    nah like basically i haven't gotten over the narrative cheat they used to populate the tython system with a grab-bag of familiar rimward aliens. imo stories from the dawn of the republic should be far less cosmopolitan since, duros and columi aside, the republic was primarily a human institution early on (or at least it used to be, i don't really keep up with new stuff any more). and the jedi (or proto-jedi) should be too, really.

    i mean it's not really a "canon" or whatever issue since that era wasn't at all set in stone until recently-- it's more a stylistic/narrative one. i mean, i wouldn't even mind some aliens (again though, i feel like humans should be clearly the dominant race) if they were known core founders. or better yet, new aliens that we haven't seen before either because they're insular core worlders in the later eras or maybe they've gone extinct or something. idk. i mean, it's 20k years before anything we've ever seen; i feel like twi'leks and cathar (and "dathomiri" lol) is just boring and lazy and kind of not really doing a whole lot to differentiate the time period from, you know, every other one ever.

    (but hah yeah anyway. um. in conclusion bwahhh dotj did not depict the pre-republic era exactly how trip imaginedddd)
    Last edited by Trip, May 29, 2013
  8. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Well FWIW, it's my understanding that the population of the Tython system at this point is totally demographically separate from whatever contemporaries of theirs go on to form the Republic. In fact, evidence suggests that the bulk of humanity is still Rakatan slaves while DotJ is going on.
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  9. Trip Force Ghost

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    "evidence suggests that the bulk of humanity is still Rakatan slaves while DotJ is going on."

    coop if you are trying to make me feel better you are not doing a very good job :p
    Last edited by Trip, May 29, 2013
  10. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    It is on my list of things to do. IIRC, the dramatis personae for BTS and SOL lacked a lot of key characters. For example, BTS does even mention Admiral Ackbar, despite the fact he is a major character and figures I. Just about every Leia scene in the book.

    --Adm. Nick
  11. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I assure you, I wouldn't think of it.
  12. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    Yeah, Dawn of the Jedi happens pre-Republic, which is a period about which the galactic demographics are indeed very, very vague. Perhaps the Esh-Kha are the most populous species at that point.

    The argument that the demographics should skew towards a greater degree of human dominance applies more to the very early Republic era. For whatever reason, when the Rakata fell humans expanded like gangbusters (perhaps because the Jedi were helping them navigate?, perhaps simply a marginally more rapid rate of population growth?). That's when they became dominant. So a story of the early Republic, like of the Republic-Tionese Conflict or the First Alsakan Conflict, who be expected to have a very high proportion of humans compared to later days, as well as a reduced diversity of alien species in general.

    I actually agree with this sentiment. Not that Tython shouldn't have a bunch of aliens for Dawn of the Jedi, but that the narrative choice was to bring in members of the most popular and well known species. It would have been nice to highlight something more obscure or even something new.
  13. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    I don't have a problem with the presence of aliens in general -- though I liked the implication in the previous illustrations that the Tythonians were primarily East Asian humans -- and in fact the proliferation of aliens on Tython via the Tho Yor gives us a great built-in retcon anytime members of a canonically-undiscovered species show up early -- they're descendants of the surviving Tythonian population, and nobody knows their original homeworld yet (which would give us fantastic story potential when a species finally rediscovers its long-lost homeworld and two radically-different populations have to face each other). I do wish, though, they the series didn't make such heavy use of overused aliens like the Twi'leks and Wookiees. It's especially apparent that it's basically just Jan's pet species -- Twi'leks, Devaronians, Cathar, Wookiees -- that are getting used in the comic series, for the most part. I'd have liked to have seen some less-expected species in use.
  14. TrakNar Force Ghost

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    Throw in some Gands and I'd have a comic to buy and an article to update.

    You know you want to put me to work. :p
  15. LelalMekha Force Ghost

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    Not all these choices were bad, however. Having the Talids was necessary, since they made up the ranks of the Bendu Monks. Having Selkath wasn't bad either, since they haven't been overused. But the Sith? That means they have been known for millennia when the Jedi Exiles "discovered" Korriban in 6,900 BBY, which gives rise to a double problem: how come that neither part recognized the other when Ajunta Pall and the others set foot on the Sith planet? Also, the Dathomiran shamans was a bad idea too. How come there were Humans on Dathomir at that point? How come they already had a shamanistic culture with domesticated rancors when we know it was Allya's doing circa 600 BBY?
    Last edited by LelalMekha, May 30, 2013
  16. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    So Tricia at FANgirl Blog just alerted me to a podcast interview with JJM that gets into gender and diversity issues a bit. I can't listen from work, or even access the page (which is funny given that I'm here right now), but I wanted to pass it along.
  17. Robimus Force Ghost

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    Maybe Johnny Depp can play Lando in the Sequel Trilogy.

    It is about as plausible as him playing Tonto. Yes, I realize he fancies himself as part Native American, but even if so that part is really far removed.
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  18. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Johnny Depp is his own race. We don't claim him.
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  19. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    Oh, I see how it is, we don't like the Ming Po, but we're perfectly happy to speciesise Johnny Depp into his own race. [face_shame_on_you]
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  20. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

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  21. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    I tried. I think I wrote a fairly reasonable post, though it's hard to really formulate what the ideal setup would be on this precise issue.
  22. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    That is why you fail.
  23. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    Hey, it's early posts. I'll fight the ignorant after the parameters have been defined.
  24. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I think the parameters were defined as soon as the one guy shouted "Gay Mynocks!"
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  25. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    May 10, 2004
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    another matter for discussion would be, why all people talk about including or not including gay romance stuff.. but are ignorant or even offended by the lesbian variant of gay. so much for fairness to all. I mean, gay is just one of many issues they could or could not feature.

    diversity is more important than that.. feature equally other skin/haircolors etc. first I say. Make the new Skywalker lead hero a nonhuman adopted daughter of Luke.. so the EU is safe and needs not perform surgery on Ben to change him :p

    Episode 7: Starring Malinza Skywalker, born Thanas! calling it now :cool:
    Last edited by CeiranHarmony, Jun 8, 2013