Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Actually a while ago we brought up that Corellians seem to have a lot of Irish aspects.
  2. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    On this thread or on some other one?
  3. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    While back in this thread page 86ish as well as this thread here
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/species-bias.50007217/
  4. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    thanks :)
  5. JediMara77 Force Ghost

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    This isn't Star Wars, so feel free to delete for being off-topic, but I saw Elysium on Friday and it has a very diverse cast. It takes place in Los Angeles and a lot of the characters are Hispanic and speak both Spanish and English. Jodie Foster speaks French and English (I'm assuming her character's supposed to be French), and the president of Elysium is named Patel (and played by the captain of the Kelvin in Star Trek 2009). I would have liked to see more female characters, but it was nice to see such a diverse cast of characters, especially in a sci-fi film set a hundred years in the future.
  6. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Moderate Elysium spoilers (open)
    Yeah, I saw it last night and it definitely feels like what LA would be in the future--even Matt Damon's character grew up speaking Spanish. I had hoped for more of Jodie Foster, though, to say nothing of Frey being a pretty standard damsel in distress.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Aug 12, 2013
  7. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  8. JediFreac Force Ghost

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    Not a fan of Elysium's race demographics...to me, Los Angeles resident, it didn't look like LA much at all. LA is 10% black/African American and like 14% Asian American, too. It really feels like as a story Elysium needed a Latino protagonist, not Matt Damon.
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  9. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    Elysium is set something like 100 years in the future. That's four generations from now. Anything we might suppose about the demographics of any city in that time-frame is subject to such a massive degree of variance that you really can't say it 'should' be anything. Yes, if current demographic trends hold, then LA would become a very diverse, probably latino-dominated environment. On the other hand, if the world really does go economic dystopia shortly and white economic advantage vanishes because everyone in the 99% has been reduced to prole status, then birth rates actually should even out and the current demographic snapshot is liable to be preserved, heck, it might even get more white.
    Last edited by Mechalich, Aug 18, 2013
  10. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  11. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    What and give people more of an excuse to complain about the movies message is "All white people are evil"?
  12. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    They must have seen a different movie. o_O
  13. Cynical_Ben Force Ghost

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    I loved Mako. She was a strong character with genuine motivations for her actions who was in no way defined by her race or her gender. The fact that there were no other female characters in the movie aside from the Russian Jager pilot who had maybe four or five lines before she bought the farm is what hurts it on that score. The cast of the movie is racially diverse, and yet, there's a totally of two female characters with speaking roles. Granted, they are both piloting Jagers, and the Russian one is in the right hand position, indicating that she's in charge, not her husband, but, still. So close, Del Toro, so close...
  14. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I think the Bechdel/Mako debate is six of one, half-dozen of the other--both scenarios have positive aspects and negative ones. In both cases I think we can celebrate the former without having to ignore the latter.
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  15. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    I think the Bechdel/Maki issue has partly to do with cast size and story structure. Pacific Rim has functionally, eight characters of any importance: Pentecost, Raleigh, Mako, Dr. Geiszler, Dr. Gottlieb, Herc Hansen, Chuck Hansen, and Hannibal Chau. Out of those, Mako Mori 'has a conversation' with only four - Pentecost, Raleigh, and the Hansens. Keep in mind that neither Raleigh or the Hansens talk to either of the doctors or to Chau except for the purpose of relaying direct information. The movie is structured so that the characters orbit Pentecost in largely discrete mission-directed bubbles, so even if you say, made Geisler or Gottlieb female you'd still fail the Bechdel test.

    Because of this, and because it is important to the story that both the Hansens (because they present a masculine challenge to Raleigh and mirror his former pairing with his brother) and Pentecost (because he's a father figure not a mother figure) be male you'd have to seriously reconfigure the story to pass the Bechdel test using Mako as one of the participants. The only real way to do it without significantly changing the movie would be to make either both the doctors, or Geisler and Chau's characters female. The latter, of course, didn't happen because del Toro wanted to cast his old buddy Ron Perlman.

    Now, given that, I would like to see the sequel (Pacific Rim did poorly at the domestic box but smashed up some good returns globally) take advantages of the openings presented to structure the story differently and allow for more female characters - this being a global franchise an Indian or Arab/Central Asian pairing might be a good choice to be either both females or male/female. Missing the Bechdel test once with a new franchise can easily be accounted for by structure, twice and then we actually have something to talk about.
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  16. Cynical_Ben Force Ghost

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    I just want to see a sequel. My favorite movie of the year. It made me feel like a kid again, something not enough movies do anymore.
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  17. JackG Force Ghost

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    To those who said there was no homosexuals in the films:
    [IMG]
  18. JediFreac Force Ghost

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    So what's the diversity count on Kenobi?
  19. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    IIRC, 50. Which, y'know, boo--but it's still JJM, so you don't really notice. Almost every character not part of the two human families at the center of the story is a random alien species, and the only human character who is definitively white is Obi. Two of the three main characters are fascinating, three-dimensional females, and there are several great supporting females as well. IMO, what it lacks in POC it makes up for in gender balance.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Aug 30, 2013
  20. xx_Anakin_xx Force Ghost

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    Looking at gender only; Star Wars began male heavy and has now moved to a female heavy universe. I do not understand why a focus straight down the middle cannot be cast. Then you have something for everyone.
  21. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Well, the last couple years of output have indeed boosted the female focus a lot, but I would argue that it was so male-dominated for so long that some degree of overcompensation (if, in fact, that's what has happened--I'm unconvinced) is called for to even things out.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Aug 31, 2013
  22. Trip Force Ghost

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    lol what
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  23. Robimus Force Ghost

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    Yeah, I don't think Star Wars is female heavy now. It is just starting to balance out a little more. Kerra Holt, Ania Solo and Ahsoka Tano are three prominate women that come to mind. But there are still more comics and novels with male leads than female ones.
  24. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    How many cultures have we seen that are visibly inspired by midlevel/renaissance Europe?
  25. Gorefiend Chosen One

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