Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    [IMG]

    [IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG]
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  2. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I stand corrected. I now see both tan white people and regular white people standing in shade.
  3. Gorefiend Chosen One

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  4. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    We can not win all the time, my well tanned friend
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  5. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Honestly, I get what you're trying to say, but claiming those two women on the far left are examples of nonwhite characters just makes you look crazy. :p
  6. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Exactly. That's why I quite liked Havac[/b]'s post about Scandinavia -- behind the idyllic socioeconomics, there's a lot of other.... worrisome stuff.
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  7. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Were can I find that post?
  8. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    It's the same post you liked: where he notes that importing homogeneity lock, stock, and barrel creates an appearance of racism, whether intentional or not.
  9. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Aha, I though you were talking about some other worrisome stuff found behind our idyllic socioeconomics
    Last edited by Gamiel, Nov 2, 2013
  10. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Last edited by Gamiel, Nov 2, 2013
  11. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

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    I don't even think those are actual tans, rather just a trick of the light creating the illusion of varied color. Look at how the skin color shifts between clusters of people, as though they're being illuminated differently depending on where they're standing.

    The intentional absence of any and all people of color from a setting in favor of purely white people is racist, whether it's done maliciously or not. One is blatant hatred, the other is the institutionalized racist idea that it's perfectly okay to have an entire, idyllic society with nothing but white people.

    Overlooking the fact that "colored people" is an outdatedly racist term...there are no canon representations of people of color among the New Mandalorians. None. Zero. A white person appearing darker in shadow is still a white person. In a discussion dealing with animated representation, what is needed is a depiction of a character who, at a glance, is clearly not white. If we're left to debate whether they're standing in shadow, or they're a little tanned, or maybe their hair's dyed, or maybe whatever...then that's a crap depiction of diversity.

    But we're not talking about a single image. That one image is just the greatest illustration of how overwhelmingly white and same the New Mandalorians are as a vast group. We're also discussing the ~10 full episodes featuring the New Mandalorians, wherein throughout their entirety, nothing but white people are shown. Not once. Not when we went to their government building, not when we went to their schools, not when we went to their hospital, not even when we went to their prison for whatever that's worth. If there are New Mandalorian people of color, if there are New Mandalorian aliens...where the hell are they?

    These are non-white, Mandalorian humans of color:
    [IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG]

    These are not:
    [IMG]
  12. JediMara77 Force Ghost

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    Random! But Ender's Game was the most diverse movie I've seen in a really long time. The International Fleet really is international.

    Kind of ironic considering the viewpoints of the author of the source material.
  13. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    I'm currently reading Ender's Game, and yeah, I'm struck by how diverse a book it is. It really is just mind boggling to me that this book was written by such a loon. Maybe it was a thing that came with old age?
  14. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    I said something about that a while back--I've only read the comic adaptation, but I couldn't believe how genuinely international the cast of characters was. Whatever he thinks about gay people, it appears to me that Card really nailed the future of race IMO.
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  15. newdawn12 Force Ghost

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    Kathleen Kennedy, is known as a champion of diversity, what impact do you think she will have on the diversity of the Star Wars universe?
  16. themetresgained Jedi Grand Master

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    Hopefully a good one. Maybe we get a female lead?
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  17. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    I still wonder where all those Mandalorians got their hair dye... this can't be natural! Guess the Clan Wars were about Mandalorian diversity and Satine decreed haircolors per law being this one and no other.. makes sense given most non blonde Mandos are with the armed guys and ladies. Even redheads like Satine's sister..
  18. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

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    Meh was Bean not white washed. I mean he is nicknamed the African Giant and that kid hardly looked African to me. Still yeah in the books it does a real good job on the diversity front for race/ethnicity. Although being better then Star Wars is not exactly a high accommodation.
  19. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

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    Wasn't that whole thing supposed to be an analogy to post-WW2 Germany? But making the ersatz post-Nazi Germans flat out goddamn Aryans is pretty much the most hamfisted way you could possibly do it.
  20. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    @Mia Mesharad I think (8-}) that part of what @Gorefiend is trying to say is that a lot of people that we usually think of as having a darker-skin can be quite pale if they stay indoor. And to most part the Cube cities are a gigantic "indoor area"

    Can you explain the difference between coloured people and people of colour to one who don't know?
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  21. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    Ah I give up, if you just do not want to see that people that are darker skinned then lets say Jango or Mirta in the group shoots, there is nothing I can do. Sure they have blonde hair, so can anyone if they want to. [face_sigh]

    As is Blonde or White for that matter.
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Nov 2, 2013
  22. themetresgained Jedi Grand Master

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    'As is Blonde or White' okay that is just straight-up nonsense.
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  23. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

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    The term "colored people" has a history of derogatory use attached to it, and at its base, places more importance on the color than the people. The newer term "people of color" both rectifies that error in emphasis, and leaves behind the older appellation that was essentially forced upon non-white people by white people without their input, and allows them to define themselves on their own, more personal terms.

    It's true that being in fairer conditions away from the constant downbeat of the sun would have a noticeable impact upon the skin and, over time, the appearance of a population. In response to @Skaddix 's earlier point about the logical fallacy of an all-white populous living in a barren desert region, the enclosed conditions of Sundari and the other New Mandalorian bio-cube cities would be a valid point of consideration. However, as Gorefiend's own posts seem to freely admit, the actual assertion being put forward is that because a handful of white characters in a crowd shot are framed in shadow, or at best have a modest tan, they're actually not white. Which is, frankly, ridiculous.

    It's not that I don't want to see them, it's that they're not there. You're letting a trick of the light deceive you and I cannot fathom why. We have multiple episodes' worth of evidence pointing to the existence of hundreds to thousands of white New Mandalorians and no evidence of non-white New Mandalorians beyond your "they might be" assertions of white people in inconsistent lighting being equivalent to actual people of color. We have creator commentary from Dave Filoni noting that the people were deliberately designed to be "nordic"aka Northern European whiteand with no further sources dispute or add to that aspect of their society in any way to indicate that diversity exists within their sub-culture. What I do not want to see is the kind of setting where I have to stare and squint and turn my head to find that one guy who's skin is half a shade darker due to changeable external factors like lighting and acknowledge that nonsense as genuine representation.
    Last edited by Mia Mesharad, Nov 2, 2013
  24. Gorefiend Chosen One

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    All a question of how you want to use either.

    If you want it to be the light or a "tan", there seems nothing I can do about that, even though for me there is that fellow right in the middle of the group shoot who either had the tanning of his life and might want to consult a doctor about it, or he really is darker skinned then lets say John Amaechi or Temuera Morrison and just happens to have dyed his hair. [face_dunno]

    Oh I agree that it should be much clearer and they should be way more diverse, but you can throw that at just about anything in TCW not just the New Mandalorians.
    Last edited by Gorefiend, Nov 3, 2013
  25. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

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    Over 130 pages in and we're talking about a couple of maybe non-white no-name extras standing in a crowd of random civilians.
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