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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  2. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I stand corrected. I now see both tan white people and regular white people standing in shade.
     
  3. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
  4. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    We can not win all the time, my well tanned friend
     
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  5. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Honestly, I get what you're trying to say, but claiming those two women on the far left are examples of nonwhite characters just makes you look crazy. :p
     
  6. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Exactly. That's why I quite liked Havac[/b]'s post about Scandinavia -- behind the idyllic socioeconomics, there's a lot of other.... worrisome stuff.
     
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  7. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Were can I find that post?
     
  8. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    It's the same post you liked: where he notes that importing homogeneity lock, stock, and barrel creates an appearance of racism, whether intentional or not.
     
  9. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Aha, I though you were talking about some other worrisome stuff found behind our idyllic socioeconomics
     
  10. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    To me the tCW mandolorians have quite a resembles to Casper from Dresden Codack. Do other also se it?
     
  11. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I don't even think those are actual tans, rather just a trick of the light creating the illusion of varied color. Look at how the skin color shifts between clusters of people, as though they're being illuminated differently depending on where they're standing.

    The intentional absence of any and all people of color from a setting in favor of purely white people is racist, whether it's done maliciously or not. One is blatant hatred, the other is the institutionalized racist idea that it's perfectly okay to have an entire, idyllic society with nothing but white people.

    Overlooking the fact that "colored people" is an outdatedly racist term...there are no canon representations of people of color among the New Mandalorians. None. Zero. A white person appearing darker in shadow is still a white person. In a discussion dealing with animated representation, what is needed is a depiction of a character who, at a glance, is clearly not white. If we're left to debate whether they're standing in shadow, or they're a little tanned, or maybe their hair's dyed, or maybe whatever...then that's a crap depiction of diversity.

    But we're not talking about a single image. That one image is just the greatest illustration of how overwhelmingly white and same the New Mandalorians are as a vast group. We're also discussing the ~10 full episodes featuring the New Mandalorians, wherein throughout their entirety, nothing but white people are shown. Not once. Not when we went to their government building, not when we went to their schools, not when we went to their hospital, not even when we went to their prison for whatever that's worth. If there are New Mandalorian people of color, if there are New Mandalorian aliens...where the hell are they?

    These are non-white, Mandalorian humans of color:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    These are not:
    [​IMG]
     
  12. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004
    Random! But Ender's Game was the most diverse movie I've seen in a really long time. The International Fleet really is international.

    Kind of ironic considering the viewpoints of the author of the source material.
     
  13. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    I'm currently reading Ender's Game, and yeah, I'm struck by how diverse a book it is. It really is just mind boggling to me that this book was written by such a loon. Maybe it was a thing that came with old age?
     
  14. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I said something about that a while back--I've only read the comic adaptation, but I couldn't believe how genuinely international the cast of characters was. Whatever he thinks about gay people, it appears to me that Card really nailed the future of race IMO.
     
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  15. newdawn12

    newdawn12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Kathleen Kennedy, is known as a champion of diversity, what impact do you think she will have on the diversity of the Star Wars universe?
     
  16. themetresgained

    themetresgained Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 23, 2013
    Hopefully a good one. Maybe we get a female lead?
     
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  17. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    I still wonder where all those Mandalorians got their hair dye... this can't be natural! Guess the Clan Wars were about Mandalorian diversity and Satine decreed haircolors per law being this one and no other.. makes sense given most non blonde Mandos are with the armed guys and ladies. Even redheads like Satine's sister..
     
  18. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Meh was Bean not white washed. I mean he is nicknamed the African Giant and that kid hardly looked African to me. Still yeah in the books it does a real good job on the diversity front for race/ethnicity. Although being better then Star Wars is not exactly a high accommodation.
     
  19. Reveen

    Reveen Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2012


    Wasn't that whole thing supposed to be an analogy to post-WW2 Germany? But making the ersatz post-Nazi Germans flat out goddamn Aryans is pretty much the most hamfisted way you could possibly do it.
     
  20. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Mia Mesharad I think (8-}) that part of what Gorefiend is trying to say is that a lot of people that we usually think of as having a darker-skin can be quite pale if they stay indoor. And to most part the Cube cities are a gigantic "indoor area"

    Can you explain the difference between coloured people and people of colour to one who don't know?
     
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  21. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Ah I give up, if you just do not want to see that people that are darker skinned then lets say Jango or Mirta in the group shoots, there is nothing I can do. Sure they have blonde hair, so can anyone if they want to. [face_sigh]

    As is Blonde or White for that matter.
     
  22. themetresgained

    themetresgained Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2013
    'As is Blonde or White' okay that is just straight-up nonsense.
     
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  23. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The term "colored people" has a history of derogatory use attached to it, and at its base, places more importance on the color than the people. The newer term "people of color" both rectifies that error in emphasis, and leaves behind the older appellation that was essentially forced upon non-white people by white people without their input, and allows them to define themselves on their own, more personal terms.

    It's true that being in fairer conditions away from the constant downbeat of the sun would have a noticeable impact upon the skin and, over time, the appearance of a population. In response to Skaddix 's earlier point about the logical fallacy of an all-white populous living in a barren desert region, the enclosed conditions of Sundari and the other New Mandalorian bio-cube cities would be a valid point of consideration. However, as Gorefiend's own posts seem to freely admit, the actual assertion being put forward is that because a handful of white characters in a crowd shot are framed in shadow, or at best have a modest tan, they're actually not white. Which is, frankly, ridiculous.

    It's not that I don't want to see them, it's that they're not there. You're letting a trick of the light deceive you and I cannot fathom why. We have multiple episodes' worth of evidence pointing to the existence of hundreds to thousands of white New Mandalorians and no evidence of non-white New Mandalorians beyond your "they might be" assertions of white people in inconsistent lighting being equivalent to actual people of color. We have creator commentary from Dave Filoni noting that the people were deliberately designed to be "nordic"aka Northern European whiteand with no further sources dispute or add to that aspect of their society in any way to indicate that diversity exists within their sub-culture. What I do not want to see is the kind of setting where I have to stare and squint and turn my head to find that one guy who's skin is half a shade darker due to changeable external factors like lighting and acknowledge that nonsense as genuine representation.
     
  24. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    All a question of how you want to use either.

    If you want it to be the light or a "tan", there seems nothing I can do about that, even though for me there is that fellow right in the middle of the group shoot who either had the tanning of his life and might want to consult a doctor about it, or he really is darker skinned then lets say John Amaechi or Temuera Morrison and just happens to have dyed his hair. [face_dunno]

    Oh I agree that it should be much clearer and they should be way more diverse, but you can throw that at just about anything in TCW not just the New Mandalorians.
     
  25. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Over 130 pages in and we're talking about a couple of maybe non-white no-name extras standing in a crowd of random civilians.
     
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