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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    I had totally forgotten Katarn's permanent frown face from that game.
     
  2. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Am I the only one who see a red X?
     
  3. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    I see no reason to assume she isn't still Asian; after all, doesn't that get into the troublesome "white until proven non-white" territory that we want to avoid?

    And huh, could have sworn Yun was Asian. Of course, I played Dark Forces on Steam, where the cutscene size was approximately the size of my thumb, and the lighting in the scene was pretty awful.
     
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  4. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Maybe I'm betraying my own biases here, but when I first played Jedi Outcast I thought they made her Caucasian again, but due to the graphics being over a decade old it is ambiguous so like I said maybe that's just me subconsciously projecting. It might be more accurate to say that I forgot that Angela Harry portrayed her in Jedi Knight, and I was surprised to remember that after the fact.
     
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  5. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Artists not bothering (or not knowing) to make POC characters distinct is definitely a thing I'm conscious of, but as far as Jan is concerned, once someone is portrayed by a real-life POC, I think that settles the matter--even if they were so inclined as to proactively change that, which I doubt they would be.

    Try this.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    90's girl is not an ethnicity, and thank the gods for that. :p
     
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  7. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2013
    When they did the tv movie pilot in the 90s they cast a white actress to play Jubilee. She was a pretty good actress actually, but still, wrong to make an Asian character white.
     
  8. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yeah so I remember watching that show as a kid and it wasn't until now that I even realized she was supposed to be Asian.

    So I guess that's a fail if kids don't figure it out. Unless I was just a particular stupid kid, which is a legitimate possibility.
     
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  9. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I remember being surprised by that too--except I figured it out in, like '96. :p
     
  10. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    I had the comics before the show, and she was vaguely Asian in those... sometimes. It was really hard to tell when everyone had Youngblood's Disease.
     
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  11. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
  12. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2013
    I was/am a big X-Men fan, so I knew before the tv movie that Jubilee was Asian. I thought it was always clear in the comics that she was Asian, but it's possible I didn't notice if the art was vague on the point.
     
  13. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Old news.


    But yes, as you see, the Empire owns in diversity. All hail the Galactic Emperor! [face_flag]
     
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  14. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I read the comic with her long before I saw the cartoon and I don't think I ever saw her as not asian-american. Interestingly she seems to be adopted in the cartoon because we se her parents in the first episode ant they, if I remember right, look western and nothing like her
    When did Jubilee have Youngblood's Disease?
     
  15. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Someone should write an article about that.
     
  16. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    When she was drawn by Tony Daniel, or any of the Liefeld-influenced artists at the time.
     
  17. JediFreac

    JediFreac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2002

    I don't know if that is necessarily a "fail" because it seems like a high degree of racial stereotyping has to occur before a lot of people assume that lighter skinned characters are Asian. For example, a lot of people believed that the characters in Avatar: The Last Airbender were white because somehow it was easier to jump to the conclusion that these were white characters wearing Asian clothing and interacting with Asian architecture and writing Chinese writing than to consider that perhaps the characters were not white. A lot of people still think Sailor Moon and the main characters in Pokemon are white. Sometimes a character has to have really creepy facial features before people believe he or she is Asian (eg. Mulan, who looks like an alien to me.)

    Conversely, growing up I thought Snow White was Asian because she had black hair and I'd never met a white person with black hair like mine. I don't think drawing Snow White with more stereotypically European features would have helped me much when I was four.
     
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  18. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Thanks. Got any pics?
     
  19. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Panel from Age of Apocalypse.

    [​IMG]

    Crop from Gambit & the X-ternals #1 (and what I used for a Hawkeye Initiative image):

    [​IMG]

    Mild case of Youngblood's Disease, but when everyone's eyes are various degrees of missing entirely, then it's difficult to discern ethnicity at times.
     
  20. Contessa

    Contessa Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2013
    That never ceases to blow my mind. Like....really?!
    But I guess it's just a product of how everyone expects the heroes of cartoons in America to be white because American=white, combined with how normalized cultural appropriation is that it makes more sense for white people to surround themselves with Asian culture and dress in Asian fashion than to see an actual Asian person/character engaging in their own culture.
     
  21. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2013
    I know that Sailor Moon is Japanese , but I can see why some people get confused there, since Sailor Moon and Sailor Venus both have blonde hair.
     
  22. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I don't think your examples count as Youngblood's Disease

    Were there not also some people that believed that A:tLA was an anime instead of American produced?
     
  23. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Well... since a lot of those Stormtroopers in the OT are still meant to be Jango clones the Empire might really have a better rating then one would guess, but them all wearing helmets and being throw away soldiers, whilst the officers are usually white British guys, comes with its own problems.
     
  24. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Well my main point is that even for the Empire, human racism based on skin color doesn't Mae any IU sense so there's no treason there shouldn't be human diversity in SW.


    Misa ab iPhono meo est.
     
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  25. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I love that Jello's autocorrect went to "treason".