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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Dec 16, 2012
    I am bit surprised that no-one here have mention the new line up for Marvels Ultimates

    What do people think?
  2. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 3, 2013
    That, or his appearance is a huge spoiler and they want it kept secret. :p
  3. Reveen

    Reveen Jedi Knight star 3

    Oct 4, 2012
    I think Marvel's going topsy turvy. The Ultimates are the relateable teen heroes and the mainstream teams are the jerks in epic action movie plots.

    Though it's a cool team lineup regardless.


    Though isn't there a species that's actually like that? I want to see more of them.
    Vthuil and Revanfan1 like this.
  4. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Jul 8, 1999
    I could not be more tired of the Ultimates as they currently exist, so I'm very excited for the New Ultimates in theory. Don't know much about the new writer, though, so I'm withholding judgment.

    Nonsense--he's obviously a Defel.
  5. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Aug 10, 2005
    Syndulla...wasn't that the last name of the Rythloth Resistance leader in TCW?
  6. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Jun 3, 2013
    Contessa likes this.
  7. themetresgained

    themetresgained Jedi Knight star 4

    Feb 23, 2013
    Oooh Rebels! Yeah!
  8. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Feb 3, 2012
    lol lamest idea ever use the characters from EU with the same appearances and personalities but with name changes.
    Contessa and Mia Mesharad like this.
  9. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Jedi Grand Master star 5

    May 23, 2005
    Ultimate Spiderman is one of the few Marvel comics I still follow/like, and most of the characters in the new ultimates are ones I really like: Miles, Jessica, Bombshell, Kitty. Looking forwards to it.
    CooperTFN likes this.
  10. Sannom

    Sannom Jedi Master star 3

    Nov 14, 2011
    I like it, although one of my first reactions was about the random but clear-cut separation between gender and race, with all the women being white and all the men being black.

    As for the rest of the new series, I'm very happy to see a black man who is also a very good but underutilized character as a part of the new line-up for FF. Yeah for Sam Wilson!

    Although to be fair, I thought the second iteration (third for the whole universe) of the Ultimate Comics line had some good aspects when it comes to diversity : Miles Morales was black and his supporting cast and rogue gallery were almost entirely made up of PoC, the X-Men were lead by women (Kitty Pryde, Nomi, Mach 2, Jean Grey, Ororo), S.H.I.E.L.D now had a asian woman in charge (Monica Chang a.k.a Black Widow, who will probably know a sad demise given that Jessica Drew is picking up her codename).
  11. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Oct 23, 2004

    Was it just me or was the story somewhat misogynic? Though granted everyone suffers in it but some of the comments towards
    and the Warden were a little much, at least imho.
  12. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Nov 19, 2007
    That kind of stood out for me, too, though I wasn't sure if it was particularly aimed at them, or just the fact that the characterization and attention paid to everyone in that book, Maul included, was pretty weak.
  13. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Jul 8, 1999
  14. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Jan 3, 2013
    Adam of Nuchtern and Contessa like this.
  15. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 2, 2012
    Now, I have no feelings on Seinfeld one way or the other. I'm not saying he's prejudiced. But this is so common an occurrence as to be cliche. We always hear that traits like race or gender are irrelevant to the search for talent. Constantly. No one's ever looking at skin color. No one's ever looking at sex. They're always just trying to find the right person for the job. And yet, in an industry crawling with diverse talent, the right person for the job is almost always a white man. When you're collecting an ensemble of comedians who're supposed to be the funniest in the business...and they turn out to be all white men...that's a message. When you're running auditions for a part and assemble actors who're supposed to be the best in the industry...and all of your candidates turn out to be white men...that's a message. It may not be an intentional message, but not all harmful things are done intentionally. We do get exceptions, like Idris Elba in Thor or Sigourney Weaver in Aliens, but they're exceptions for a reason. Because while people like Steven Moffat may openly mock fans for suggesting that the next Doctor would be nice as a man of color or even a woman, most of these attitudes are quieter, more institutionalized to a degree that if a person even realizes that they're doing it, they're much more likely to mask it beneath pleasant sentiments.
  16. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jul 22, 2010
    I'm willing to admit I've been known to read Cracked articles on occasion (though I wasn't aware how old this one is, but no matter). At the risk of reopening Hellmouth, I have to say that I found this one very amusing. The comments even more so.
  17. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Jul 8, 1999
    The reason this hits me the way it does is because I watch Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee. And it's not a TV show; not really. CICGC is "Jerry Seinfeld gets paid to hang out with his friends".

    If we were talking about Seinfeld the 90s TV show, it would be a totally different paradigm. As much as I love every frame of that show on an artistic level, from a diversity standpoint, it's embarrassing. A product of its time, certainly, and no more embarrassing than Friends or Coach or whatever, but it was a cultural force that almost entirely reflected a tiny, tiny percentage of American culture at the time. Even there, one could easily build a defense around the fact that it was based on Seinfeld's actual life, and thus, the main characters are of course going to be the people a white Jewish stand-up comedian living in Manhattan is most likely to be around--but at the very least, it's reasonable to say that they had a responsibility to embrace a wider cross-section of NYC due to their visibility.

    CICGC, on the other hand, is Jerry Seinfeld dicking around in his spare time. The reason he got his back up in this particular context, IMO, is because criticizing the lineup of CIGCG is like telling him "you have the wrong friends". Clearly they do make an effort (or at least are nudged by the producers) to get the occasional larger name on there (Tina Fey and Sarah Silverman both stand out as people I doubt he's all that close to IRL), and of course I'm happy to see that happen, but I don't think it's fair to hold a series like that to the same demographic standards as broadcast television. The main component of its charm is precisely the fact that he does generally have relationships with these people off-camera, and you're getting to see them shoot the **** in a way you normally wouldn't.

    I support more diversity in any and all media from a philosophical standpoint, and I support raising awareness when it's not there; but I don't think a lack of it is inherently a flaw in all situations--just most of them.
    DigitalMessiah likes this.
  18. windu4

    windu4 Jedi Master star 4

    May 15, 2008
    So what you're saying is that Jerry Seinfield doesn't have any black friends.
  19. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    May 15, 2006
    No, that was George. Outside of us, he doesn't really have any white friends, either.
    Havac and CooperTFN like this.
  20. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jul 22, 2010
    Anyone read the first issue of the new Ms. Marvel series? I'm normally not the type to pick up monthly comics, but this is one I really want to support (good deed of the week officially accomplished. I may now shove children and run over puppies at my leisure.) It's not bad at all. Feels like an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer in ways.

    To tie it a bit more into this thread, though, I am loving the "she's just there so the company can pretend they're politically correct" crowd. Gotcha. Clearly the best solution is to not even bother with diversity. Then no one would be able to claim they're trying to fix it.
    Gamiel likes this.
  21. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Jul 8, 1999
    I'm picking it up later, but I'm waiting for the Captain Marvel relaunch before I make any decisions about my pull list.
  22. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Nov 28, 2000
    I only ever read Incredible Hercules but I was pretty happy with its diversity.

    Misa ab iPhono meo est.
  23. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Jul 19, 1999
    If you want to read Willow's other work, Cairo, Air and Mystic are all worth a look ID.
    instantdeath likes this.
  24. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Jul 19, 1999
    Vthuil, CooperTFN and Revanfan1 like this.
  25. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Apr 4, 2011
    So many Hawkeye Initiative options for me to choose from! Where do I start!