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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Yes ambiguous defaults to white. I mean he looks Latino to me but he could also be a white guy with a tan
     
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  2. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Either white or a non-human alien, apparently.
     
  3. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    A question: is tan a skin colour or is it just a shortening of suntan? To my understanding it is the former but you people use it in the second way, so is it just I who are wrong?
     
  4. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    What do you mean, "you people"?







    Sorry, couldn't help myself. "Tan" is a color. "Having a tan" is what happens when you're in the sun a lot, and can often result in a racially-ambiguous character. As can the existence of various groups that are traditionally considered "white" but appear darker-skinned than, say, the average German. See: Gadot, Gal.
     
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  5. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    When my grandpa was growing up, he spent so much time in the sun that his skin was so dark the people in his town mistook him for a black person. It was rather sad because they wouldn't let him swim in the public pool or do other things that were white person-exclusive. It took his parents coming to the pool and telling them "Yes, this is my son" for him to be able to do any of that.
     
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  6. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I am sorry but I don't fully understand. Can I use tan to describe for a person with a natural f.ex. light brown skin?


    On an other note: have we seen any dark skinned epicanthix? We have seen caucasian, Yun, and the Pike sisters look asian, at least when drawn and inked by Ronn Randall and P. Craig Russell but I don't know of any "black or brown" epicanthix
     
  7. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2012
     
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  8. kecen

    kecen Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    I would love to think of Kanan as not a WHM. Otherwise I don't think I could stand him. Kyle Katarn is not that interesting to me in the first place.
    The Epicanthix should be retconned out of existence.
     
  9. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Amen. No ifs, ands, or buts.
     
  10. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
  11. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
  12. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Well yes they use Wookiepedia but I dont think they use it for their brand new characters at least not before the show has even launched.
     
  13. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Not in a million years could that be described as "fair". Wook be crazy.
     
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  14. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Ahem...
    It's been changed now, but it's striking how quickly that happened. Which is why I agree that it would've been much more preferable if Pablo had just come right out and said that yes, Kanan was intended as a man of color. There's something to be said for allowing your actions to speak for themselves, but there's also something to clarifying those actions with a few simple words so there's no misinterpretation. Because people can, will, and do misinterpret almost any racially ambiguous character as white, as we all know.
     
  15. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Give me a few minutes and I'll go see what I can do...
     
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  16. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Well, at the very least, people can only "misinterpret" a character in a visual medium so much. We're used to dealing with this in the context of novels, but Kanan could very reasonably be identified as Greek or something--so I can appreciate why they wouldn't want to alienate a bunch of different groups by nailing him down utterly as, say, Cuban or what have you. My feelings on this got a lot more complicated after reading this piece by CodeName_Targeter about Skye on SHIELD, who is half Chinese and passes for white to the point that I would never have noticed if it hadn't been pointed out to me. As much as the *cough* *snicker* journalist in me wants them to scream "POC" from starwars.com in big block letters, there is value in ambiguity--especially for a kids' show that's hugely susceptible to the audience identification factor--allowing the widest possible swath of kids to feel that Kanan represents them.

    Now, having said all that, I still can't imagine where "fair" came from. o_O
     
  17. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Judging by the citation, it was from the video. However, determining skin color from that is difficult due to lighting. With a bad flash or bad lighting in general, my skin is whiter than sour cream. Usually, though, it's a bit more olive.
     
  18. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    I think it's entirely possible, though, to make it clear that's he not meant to be snow-white while not specifically stating what he is meant to be.
     
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  19. Contessa

    Contessa Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2013
    That's what I was hoping for. I mean, I don't need Pablo or whoever to come out and say "We're keeping him in line with FPjr, so he's part Native American, part Puerto Rican, and part assorted white." Just a simple, "Yeah, he's a POC" or a plain "No, he's not intended to be white" would be just fine.

    That's kind of why Pablo's answer to Cooper and his other Twitter shenanigans joking about people discussing whether or not Kanan's a POC pisses me off. This is a perfectly reasonable question to be asking, it wouldn't kill them to give a reasonable answer.
     
  20. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Oh they should, though for other reasons, the galaxy is already full of Aliens that look like Humans but are not supposed to be Humans.
     
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  21. themetresgained

    themetresgained Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Kanan's nose either looks like it's been broken weirdly, or it means he's not white.

    I think he's a PoC. Edit: Pablo tweeted this. I'd say it looks good.

    Do we think Ezra is? Ezra is traditionally a Jewish name, right? Sorry if this has already been discussed...
     
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  22. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Twitter's so bizarre.

    Some runaway Jedi hobo isn't the best role-model for children, anyway.
     
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  23. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    I don't think we should expect to learn much from the names - they're chosen more often because they sound good than to indicate ties to a particular Earthly racial ancestry. Unless we think the Organas are descended from a 7th-century Bulgarian ruler.
     
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  24. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Kubrat is a badass name though.
     
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  25. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Watching that preview, Ezra seemed like he could have an East Asian component to him, but that could've just been the art they were showing. I don't know that we'll ever really be able to nail either of them down--whatever you may think of it, that seems to be their exact strategy.