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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Ahahahahahahah


    They got knocked over by the Death Watch in a friend in need
     
  2. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2009
    But it is not done enough, otherwide there probably wouldnt have been such a stink, these things must be semi-consistant, not just once in a blue moon. I think they did a good jub with the vong, but its is clear their is a certain expectation amongst the general fan base.

    Good or Evil and nothing in between.
     
  3. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    All this talk of genetic and racial traits reminds of something I said on here years ago. It's usually a waste of time trying to use real world genetics to explain various human traits and characteristics in the gffa.
     
  4. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Ah, "Asians are nonhumans" strikes again. [face_plain]
     
  5. Reveen

    Reveen Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2012


    The fantastical aliens of Star Wars! I mean, slightly slanted eyes? I can't even imagine!
     
  6. The_Forgotten_Jedi

    The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2010
    :eek:

    That's... wah? Who the hell approved that? Did no one think through the implications of it at all?
     
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  7. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I can almost certainly guarantee that they did not think through the implications, because the implications probably never even crossed their mind. No one in charge seems to fathom the great big middle finger they're giving to these groups by deciding that all it takes to be an alien race is to appear "traditionally" Asian, or in Adi Gallia's case of late, it only takes being black with an odd-looking hat.
     
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  8. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    That needs to be canon. It still could be, couldn't it? Have we ever seen a Hutt die of old age?
     
  9. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I was more disturbed by the fact the Mandalorians very explicitly took the women and women alone. Yeah, that was totally about them being waitresses.

    As for the fact they enslaved Space Mongolians, I'm not so sure about the direct offensiveness.
     
  10. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Regarding the Ming Po, Tholothians, and other Near-Human species of seemingly limited differentiation from baseline humanity, two things.

    First, not all, or even most, speciation events produce obvious cosmetic differences. For every weird looking Near-Human there ought to be just as many with minimal external changes but internalized variations instead. Cases do exist in Star Wars, the Epicanthix, for example, appear outwadly to be East Asian humans, but have a longer lifespan, so there must be some sort of metabolic difference.

    Second, species determination is an inexact science, dependent on taxonomic value judgments regarding the variable importance of characters both internal and external and macroscopic and microscopic. The line being 'divergent population' and 'new species' isn't really a line at all, but a gradual continuum, and species determinations are largely dependent upon taxonomic opinion. This is known as the splitters vs. lumpers argument, and there's plenty of infighting regarding the species composition of the genus Homo going on right now, on Earth, based on various human ancestor species. Star Wars seems rather clearly to sit on the splitter side of the equation. This is, from an in-universe perspective quite logical given both the extreme nature of geographic isolation (individual planets) present in the galaxy, and the history of speciesist conflict that makes identity into a weapon.

    All of the above is not to say, however, that some of these choices have not been made in a rather unenlightened fashion regarding the out-of-universe reaction by actual minority viewers. This is especially true in TCW, which has a younger target audience who cannot be reasonably expected to understand the scientific justification for such labels.
     
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  11. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    You can say that again.
    I was thinking the exact same thing.
     
  12. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    To add on to this, in Earth's distant past there were other, fully separate species of humans that would most likely be indistinguishable from a modern human except for one or two minor differences.

    In particular, looking at the Ming Po's height and odd proportions, I cannot help but think of the recently discovered "Hobbit" species of human.


    Though still an odd choice....especially since the Kage from the same season are also alien Asians.
     
  13. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    And we apparently ate them. Go humanity. [face_plain]
     
  14. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    The diversity on Onderon in TCW has been much better than we have seen in the past. The world seems to have white, Mediterranean, black and even some vaguely Indian/Middle Eastern people as well. Much better than, say, Mandalore in TCW.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    That's because Onderon is a loyal ally to the Republic, and the Mandalorians derive their culture from the monstrous Taung who are the ancestral enemies of galactic civilization.
     
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  16. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    I miss the Taung.

    They should reintroduce an armada of them into the "modern era", Crosscurrent style. It'd be nice to have the real, true Mandalorians back. [face_whistling]:D

    EDIT:
    Come to think of it, you'd think we'd get more exiles from the past busting through to the future by doing away with their relativistic shields. On the run from the authorities? JUMP TO THE FUTURE! Need to fake your death? JUMP TO THE FUTURE! Want your mother-in-law dead? JUMP TO THE FUTURE!
     
  17. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 2, 2012
    TOR mentioned there was a lost colony of them during Archaeology quests
     
  18. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    To be fair, the presence of white blue-eyed blond Aryans in Mandalore is kind of deliberate. You might even argue it explains why they're so nasty to the True Mandalorians.
     
  19. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    It was actually in holonet news about a dude who went forward in time
     
  20. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    New Mandalorians - True ones are dead and all and I don’t really think that it was what they were getting at with making some of the people blond and blue eyed. Though yes it is a little iffy.
     
  21. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    No, I meant the ones who looked like Maori. The Death Watch in the larger EU was menacing Mandalorian civilians before this anyway.

    I believe the Nazi allusions are deliberate in TCL primarily because it's not just the blond and blue eyes but also the haircuts, the rhetoric, and the fact the series is ridiculously fond of allusions.
     
  22. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Maybe they do. Entirely possible that Bosbit Matarcher was a lucky (unlucky?) one, and they usually end up much farther ahead.
     
  23. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I think the relativistic shield business is kind of silly. Still, I'll just pretend most people get atomized or dumped into Otherspace.

    :)
     
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  24. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Mandalorians where always menacing civilians in general as it seems, though the people from Concord don’t seem to share “looks”, neither does the True Mando gang, though granted we see most of those only with helmets on.

    Isn't at least one of the Death Watch a red head? Could also easily just be a style thing where they dye their hair, plus we get several New Mandos that are not blond.
     
  25. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    It could easily be coincidence if you argue about sharing models but I think the idea they're making a deliberate artistic choice makes sense as well. It also nicely fits the story they're trying to tell. Which is a largely peaceful society subverted by people promising a return to military glory.