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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    So Lando should not have flirted with Leia? Jabba should not have bikini girl slaves? Luke should not have had a crush on Leia?

    Well okay, maybe that last one...
     
  2. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Wait that's seriously his argument?

    He should also take note Jabba was a Hermaphrodite. Hutts in general are
     
  3. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    If we should keep any of them, it ought to be the last one! How about let's compromise and get rid of the fanservice in the middle? :p
     
  4. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    I really don't see the issue with Medriit and Goran... like Cooper said, it wasn't forced down the reader's throats, and was in fact as subtle as subtle can be.

    Heck, I didn't even realise it until I saw it mentioned here on Lit (albeit I did admittedly skim the Mando parts of LOTF so wasn't exactly paying that much attention and just wanted to get through Traviss's book as quickly as possible :p).
    Bah, it's a futuristic space age society... for all we know, consensual incest would have become an accepted practice once again. :p
     
  5. jedimaster203

    jedimaster203 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 1999
    Sexuality is an important part of character personality. I won't say that sexuality defines personality, but it does affect motivations. How many sterling knights in shining armor would slay a dragon if not for the promise of the damsel in distress's hand in marriage. To advocate ignoring sexuality for escapist reasons alone is advocating ignoring vital aspects of characterization.

    Think of the character Dumbledore. He was written in a way that his sexual orientation was not really an issue. Its not until after he was declared gay that the character's motivations (for me at least) were really apparent.
     
  6. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    I personally felt that that announcement was unnecessary and contributed nothing to the book, and was just Rowlings (after the fact) way of supporting gay marriage. But then, I missed Medriit and Goran the first time I read it. (Yes, I read it again. Poor me.)
     
  7. Rilwen_Shadowflame

    Rilwen_Shadowflame Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2005
    "Luke... I am your father."

    "...Wait, 'father'? You had sex? With a woman? NOOOOOOOOO!"
     
  8. LarryG

    LarryG Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Fun-neeee!!
     
  9. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    This is certainly true, though it's unclear how sexuality would drive characterization in a universe that is, hypothetically, open and tolerant of sexual orientations beyond strict heterosexuality. Whether or not this is even true of Star Wars is, frankly, unknown. The treatment of Lando, and later of various PT characters from non-white ethnic groups makes a very strong case for in-universe color-blindness. However, we know gender prejudice exists in Star Wars (going both ways, there have been oppressive patriachies and matriachies portrayed), so it's unclear what the status of LGBT issues actually is, in-universe. This in some small way also might explain why no one has really made a push for it in the EU - there's no clear movie cue to read-off.

    Unless the ST reboots the EU, Star Wars will probably never be very well positioned to talk about these issues, it has too much history of not talking about them. not to say that it can't, but just as the foundations of Star Wars bio-science are shackled by a 1970s understanding of biology, Star Wars is also shackled by a 1970s level of awareness regarding gay-rights issues.
     
  10. Reveen

    Reveen Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Yeeeah, I got the vibe from a few people in that thread that they think Star Wars is utterly void of sexuality, which is.... weird. Very, very weird.

    Sure, there's never gonna be a full blown sex scene in Star Wars. But there's PG level subtext, it's not like Han and Leia went through romantic interplay in ESB because they just wanted to go get malts or something. It's just passed over by the pacing of the film. It's like saying that drugs don't exist in Star Wars because we don't openly see someone bleeding from the nose screaming about bats.

    Reminds me of that scene in Wayne's World.



    Sexuality is a rather important part of the human psyche and a movie with adult characters completely lacking any subtext or hints toward sexuality would be kinda bizarre to watch. Imagine a movie that with no references to food or eating whatsoever, like it takes place in a world where people don't have digestive systems.
     
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  11. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    It's very clear that Han and Leia are sleeping together in Christie Golden's book. (And we are treated to their discussion.

    And as to drugs....*cough*spice mines of Kessel*cough* where they get medicine, which is sold on the black market as drugs.
     
  12. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    "Captain, being held by you isn't quite enough to get me excited."
    "Sorry, I don't have time for anything else."

    That one flew over my head for many years.
     
  13. Reveen

    Reveen Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2012
    You know how long it took me to get that line?

    Until five seconds ago,
     
  14. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Same here. I have TV Tropes to thank for pointing that one out. :p
    One of the NJO books, I think it's Destiny's Way, implies sex between Luke and Mara in one scene, and then between Han and Leia in another. Then of course there's Jacen and Tenel Ka in The Joiner King.

    As for drugs, the entire plot of Scourge revolves around the dark side of some of the worse drugs, not to mention the plot to get I-5 drunk in the MedStar books.
     
  15. Rilwen_Shadowflame

    Rilwen_Shadowflame Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2005
    The horrifying truth: the existence of Cade means generations and generations of Skywalkers have had sex!:eek:
     
    CeiranHarmony likes this.
  16. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    And then in I, Jedi, we have Ooryl Qrygg discussing at length the merits of reproduction. Thank you, Ooryl, for that insight into the minds of Gands. They're wild about procreation.
     
  17. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Interspecies love FTW.

    [​IMG]
     
    TrakNar likes this.
  18. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    [​IMG]

    Relevant. For Corran.
     
  19. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Those disgusting Rebels. And to think that these bleedin' furries WON the war....
     
  20. johnthejedi24

    johnthejedi24 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 2004
    LoL, that's cute.

    Oh and Bothans for the win. Notable that we haven't had any major interspecies trysts lately in the books except for the typical Twi'Lek, and by now Im calling them the GFFAs Asari...oh wait never mind, that's Zeltrons.

    BTW: Anybody know how I can contact Leeland Chee to possibly get an official answer from him on an EU issue?
     
  21. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Wait....what are those flames in the foreground?

    Are they supposed to symbolize the burning sensation you feel afterward?
     
  22. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    They're supposed to symbolize all the readers burning their comics in horror.

    Or the campfire they're dancing around. But probably the horror-burning.
     
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  23. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    As long as the parts line up... [​IMG]

    By the way, we need an emote like that one, so that way I don't have to keep pulling it from another forum.
     
    CT-867-5309 likes this.
  24. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    so we got a new sexthread it seems... can we talk about diversity in sexpartners yet? :p
     
  25. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    NO. Go away.
     
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