Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

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    The Holiday Special has a cantina scene! And most of the aliens present have been given names, too.
  2. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    They wouldn't make the Dramatis Personae.
  3. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

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    Tork might. Krelman definitely would, as would Gormaanda and Dromboid. Mermeia also beat Lando to the black punch, which was a conscious effort on the part of the producers to be diverse. Mad props there. Throw in the Wookiees and the Holographic Ringmaster, and the diversity score would actually be pretty great.
  4. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    If Mermeia count, Jefferson Starship definitely counts.

    I take your point - it definitely had some things going for it from a diversity standpoint, but I think "pretty great" is a stretch. And I'm not about to re-watch it to figure out the score. :p
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  5. Danzo Jedi Master

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    A random point that just occurred to me (sorry if it's already been mentioned but 42 pages is a lot and I can't remember what I have and haven't read from this thread :p) out of all the Star Wars games we've had so far, where a create-your-own character has been in play they've always been canonized as being male with the exception of Meetra Surik from Kotor II, who was made female but also received a dramatic push back in terms of her overall power and ability in the recent Revan novel. Is Meetra the only current game where we play a female character (I know in several games it's possible to, but is this the only instance where it's canon?)? Whichever the case, I'm hoping this is changed at least somewhat should the SW:TOR characters be fleshed out in sources.
  6. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Hell, Jaden Korr even had nonhuman options, and still ended up as a WHM.
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  7. Danzo Jedi Master

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    That raises another point, again with Meetra as the exception, is there any game that features a main character who hasn't been canonized as WHM?
  8. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    The protagonists in TOR. But wait and see how that lasts
  9. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    I imagine one of the Sith will canonically be Sith, and wouldn't be shocked if they went with the Chiss agent and a Miraluka Jedi due to them being 'special' options for those classes (if you discount Legacy perks).

    Not that rainbow coloured humans are exactly representative of the exotic diversity of Star Wars aliens, though since all the TOR options are ultimately humanoid it'd be better than nothing. (Although I'd personally not object to the canonical species being a race not in the game so that nobody felt 'their' character wasn't the 'best' choice.)
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 21, 2012
  10. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    It's annoying that they always opt for the most generic option available. As well as sad in more ways then one
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  11. The Man Who Sold the Moon Jedi Padawan

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    I was suprised in a positive way that Meetra was a female.
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  12. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    My "canon" TOR characters...most of which I haven't played more than an hour on, but they're there, and will all be completed sometime before the year 2053.

    Jedi Knight- Miraluka Male
    Jedi Consular- Mirialan male (was going to make a female consular, but come on, Nolan North).
    Trooper- Female cyborg
    Smuggler- Twilek Male
    Sith Warrior- Red Sith Male
    Sith Inquisitor- Female Zabrak
    Bounty Hunter- Female Rattataki
    Agent- Female Chiss

    Look at that, not one human... I had various reasons for each class, including things like voice actor, companions and so on, but now I realize the majority of my male characters ended up Republic, and majority female Empire... uhhh, coincidence, I promise.
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  13. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    In regards to TOR, I suspect it is possible to guess at the eventually fallout of the gender balance (though not the species balance) based on the principal companion characters.

    The Jedi Knight is most strongly associated with Kira Carsen, and the Sith Warrior with Vette, so both characters are likely to be male. The Trooper with Aric Jorgan and more likely to be female. The Inquisitor and Consular are more nebulous, because their stories center around non-romancable non-humans. However the Consular's Nadia Grell romance feels like an afterthought, so I would put that character as female. The Inquisitor may skew male, simply because the Kallig plot centers heavily on heritage and descent, which is traditionally more of a 'male-bloodline' sort of thing. The Imperial Agent is something of a cipher (yay for bad puns), but has a strong relationship with Kaliyo, so that is more likely male (though is any of the companions were legitimately representing bisexuality, Kaliyo would be the most obvious). The Smuggler I don't know, Corso is the primary companion, but a male smuggler's storyline allows for leaving a string of conquests across the galaxy. As for the bounty hunter, I frankly haven't played a very large part of that class plotline.
  14. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    Yes, Nadia Grell is the main reason I was strongly considering making my consular female (I've put too much thought into this as it is), but eventually I decided to opt for male, because the female voice actor is rather flat in many places, and from what I've seen Nolan North makes a fantastic Jedi Master; when I get around to playing the Consular, I'll likely just not do the romance, as I'll probably play him as more of a traditional Jedi character, as opposed to the Knight, who as you said is pretty strongly linked to Kira Carsen (who has her own subplot and everything).

    From what I've seen, though, I think I actually prefer the Sith Inquisitor as a female. The Ashara romance, like with Nadia Grell, comes across to me as obligatory. However, I find the relationship between the player character and Zash takes on a very warped mother-daughter feel, something that's lacking in what I've seen of the male SI playthrough (quite a bit in this case, since my brother had one).

    The Bounty Hunter screams female to me, mainly due to the presence of the Mandalorian companion.

    The Agent can go either way, really. The relationship between a female Agent and Kaliyo is interesting; I actually find the friendship much more believable than the romance of what I've seen of the male Agent. Ultimately, what sold this one for me was my preference of the voice actor (though both do a fantastic job in this case, but I felt the female voice actor came across as more coldly professional, the type of character I intended to play)), and my obsession four symmetry (four male characters, four female).
    Last edited by instantdeath, Nov 21, 2012
  15. Mechalich Force Ghost

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    Indeed, neither Ashara or Nadia's romances are particularly convincing. Nadia's is really not her fault, the companion aquisition for the Consular and Inquisitor skews very late game compared to the other classes and though Nadia shows up earlier but by the time she joins your party and you get to romance her everything has already happened, especially because of the tendency to overlevel and then rush through Voss and Corellia. You don't have much interaction with Xalek either.

    Ashara's romance is rather weak, though in general she just seems uninteresting overall, which is true of all the Inquisitor companions actually, aside from Khem Vhal. He is intimately tied to the storyline, while the others are mostly just means to help you find things.

    Vette's romance is far more fully realized than any of the others I've done so far simply because she has so much more interaction with the character. Of course, as someone who also watches TCW that association can be kind of distracting at times.
  16. Danzo Jedi Master

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    Oct 20, 2012
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    I really hope that the Sith Inquisitor is made female in canon as the dynamic between the character and Zash is great with a female. I would love for the Jedi Knight to be female too but I can't see it happening if only because of the Kira subplot.

    So with the exception of Tor which we can't really count since we don't know how it will be canonized, is there any game beyond Kotor II which has a canon female character as the PC?
  17. instantdeath Force Ghost

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    Jul 22, 2010
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    From what I understand, the only games you can choose gender would be both KOTOR games, Jedi Academy, and TOR, though I could easily be missing some. So yeah, from those, only KOTOR II has a canonized female protagonist. But hey, in my humble opinion, they picked the best character to be female (sorry Revan, you're close, but you have to admit, you get a lot of your awesomeness from the Exile's game).
    Last edited by instantdeath, Nov 22, 2012
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  18. Danzo Jedi Master

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    I can totally get behind that statement, I enjoyed Rean as a character, but I loved the Exile so much more.
  19. jSarek VIP

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    Star Wars: Lethal Alliance, starring Rianna Saren.
  20. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

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    Mara Jade in Mysteries of the Sith?
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  21. Hero of Tukayyid Jedi Knight

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    It's obvious that some companion dialogue was cut because of the christmas release. I was really suprised how little yo can talk yo Skadge about or Tanno Vik. Two awesome characters.
  22. Likewater Force Ghost

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    I heard Skadge was hated by even darksider players because of how SUPER evil he was.
  23. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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  24. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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  25. Robimus Force Ghost

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    Lets get a rating for Star Wars Lego :p