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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    The character Strunk in Rey's story from Before the Awakening was described as having something, but it was really vague. His sister said he was "stupid", but there was more going on than met the eye. The implication that mental illness isn't immediately rectified in children on a backwater planet like Jakku isn't surprising, and one that's actually interesting to consider.

    Also -- does Gregor count? (suddenly I'm reminded of Crazy Locker Man... there's probably a whole bunch of examples of PTSD...)
     
  2. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    Oh yeah I remember that now. Leave it to Rucka to bring a lot of social consciousness to a long standing franchise, a la Renee Montoya being a lesbian in Gotham Central.


    Do you think SW should ever make steps to start to bring in those kinds of terms or equivalents to them? With how big the fandom is it would no doubt give the franchise the ability to represent even more of its fandom, especially a part that is always marginalize and under represented in media.
     
  3. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

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    Jul 8, 1999
    You know, I'm conflicted--I think there's absolutely lots of room for neurodivergent characters, human and otherwise, but real-world mental illnesses I think are too specific for a franchise like SW to do in a way that's respectful and layered. Speaking about it vaguely, like how they have with Saw, I think is fine--SW works best with archetypes, after all.

    But OTOH I'm sure there are neurodivergent fans who would like to see themselves represented, and I don't think it's my place to say no to that. Dunno, it's a big subject.
     
  4. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 24, 2013
    Seeing real world terms for the issues would be jarring. Work around that and I'd think you'd be fine.
    Much like say Sinjir is into men but isn't referred to as "gay", because that term is too much a social construct with too much real world baggage attached to it.
     
  5. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    Good point
     
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  6. theraphos

    theraphos Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 20, 2016
    IIRC Rebels-era Wolffe has pretty bad PTSD. Didn't an Imperial mention regularly getting delusional distress calls from him on such a regular basis that everyone at that outpost knows to just ignore him? Also I want to say he had some sort of dissociative spell or panic attack or something on-screen, but it's been forever since I watched it.

    Going back to Legends, Shatterpoint mentioned that just about every Jedi survivor of Geonosis was in therapy for nightmares, and Dark Rendezvous said something about those who came back from Geonosis never really coming back from Geonosis.
     
  7. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    I was always under the impression that the reference to Wolffe having "episodes of delusional paranoia" (paraphrasing) wasn't actually supposed to be taken at face value - it was really an Imperial cover story for clones that tried to talk about the Kaminoan control chips.
     
  8. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 5, 2011
    Where is TrakNar to tell us about Zuckuss?
     
  9. theraphos

    theraphos Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 20, 2016
    Well it was specifically in reference to him calling their base regularly - wouldn't make much sense for a perfectly mentally well Wolffe to just be calling up Imperial military like "hey guys, it's Thursday again and that means control chips. Control chips!" There would be no real reason for doing it or for endangering himself and the others in the process.

    EDIT: I'm rewatching now, and within the first ten minutes Rex is already having to remind Wolffe to stay in reality/the present.

    EDIT 2: "Commander, we've received a binary transmission from an old clone unit on Seelos. Something about a Jedi."

    "That system is remote."

    "Haven't all the clones been decommissioned?"

    "Yes, and while the clone's number checks out, there's a record of calls of delusional distress."

    "I wouldn't take him too seriously."

    So I misremembered the outpost thing, but not the rest of it.
     
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  10. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 29, 2003
    Hmmm... I have to wonder when they actually did remove the chips. I always assumed it was after what happened to Fives, and it must have been before Order 66, but how did they get away with it and not get caught? How did Wolffe survive long enough to get a record for "delusional distress" and not "went rogue and removed chip"?

    I hope she read the Phasma novel. The Gand was the best part. Keeping up the trend of people awkwardly interacting with Gands from the old EU -- nobody understands what the heck they prattle on about.
     
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  11. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
     
  12. JediFreac

    JediFreac Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 7, 2002
    Oooh oooh oooh I can answer some of these questions about mental illness! Thoughts about mental illness in Star Wars...

    1) The most prominent example of mental illness that sticks out to me in Star Wars is Myn Donos's PTSD in the Wraith Squadron books. Unfortunately his PTSD is cured in a way that would be unrealistic in our world--the Wraiths do "exposure" therapy where they basically reenact the trauma, one time, and then he is cured. In real life, exposure therapy would not look like this (it would be a more gradual ramp up to help resolve his PTSD to the memory of all of his squadmates dying.)

    2) I am also reminded of Thracia Cho Leem, the Jedi therapist from Rogue Planet, who was Anakin Skywalker's therapist for a brief spell before running away from the Jedi forever... Or maybe Depa Billaba in Shatterpoint who had severe PTSD.

    3) Anakin Skywalker has borderline personality disorder, the etiology of which can probably be traced back to his childhood growing up as a slave in an unstable environment, coupled with the invalidating environment of his young adulthood in the Jedi Order. This is demonstrated in his coping behaviors, emotional dysregulation, and interpersonal relationships. This is co-morbid with antisocial personality disorder where he exhibits antisocial behaviors with little remorse. Kylo Ren has more narcissistic personality disorder traits than Anakin; he's very narcissistically defended and grandiose about wanting to be like grandpappy. Both have very short fuses.

    4) While some characters in Star Wars may exhibit symptoms potentially indicative of psychosis (such as seeing the Force ghost of your dead mentor) I would be loathe to pathologize it. Perhaps it is a normal established phenomena in that universe. Also, seeing your dead mentor's ghost does not necessarily result in significant impairments in life functioning.

    5) Not all evil/bad/maladaptive/what-have-you behaviors can be attributed to mental illness. Also, the exact nature of the dark side and it's corrupting nature is not well understood.

    6) C-3PO has some of the symptoms of Generalized Anxiety Disorder (excessive, uncontrollable worries about a range of things) but would not actually meet criteria as he is not physiologically capable of presenting with any of the physiological symptoms (eg. muscle tension, sleep disturbance, etc.)

    7) I don't know if anyone ever read Everworld by KA Applegate (one of the authors of Animorphs!) but in that series she depicts a modern day hero who has OCD and is transported to a fantasy setting. He has intense OCD around cleanliness and germs, which causes problems for him because in fantasy worlds running water is not that easy to come by... This actually added a lot to the character and the story and it would be interesting to see something like this play out with a character in Star Wars.
     
  13. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 5, 2004

    In the same books, I would also argue that Ton Phanan is clinically depressed.
     
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  14. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Battlefront 2 info:
    Shriv.

    Danger Leader.

    He's so good.

    He's a Duros.

    I love him.
     
  15. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    And there's one Duros in Chalmun's cantina in Episode IV to compare him with.
     
  16. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    Poor effort, old sport. A situational variant like "there's one Duros pilot in Shattered Empire to compare him with," or something similar would have worked better.
     
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  17. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    This isn't that kind of diversity thread.
     
  18. tatooinesandworm

    tatooinesandworm Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 30, 2015
    . Bad humor edit .
     
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  19. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    The best kind.
     
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  20. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 13, 2007
    It seems like Duros have had the most representation among previously known alien species as supporting players in the new canon.
     
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  21. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    It's amazing how much that thread created a genuine affection for the species in my heart.
     
  22. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 13, 2007
    you mean Chiss
     
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  23. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    What other species could I have possibly been talking about?
     
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  24. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Look, Shriv is funny as heck. It's just good writing, folks.
     
  25. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 13, 2007
    Shriv the funny Chiss