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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2016
    I'm looking forward to **** hitting the fan from these same audiences when Finn and Rey end up together in IX. It's going to be hilarious.
     
  2. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    I mean, I'm not one for shipping but it's literally the only relationship I can see being sensible at this point.
     
  3. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2016
    A part of me thinks Rose and Finn is inevitable. It really wouldn't make sense for them to be brought together for this movie the way they were and Finn just rejecting her after she told him she loved him. That's not very Disney-like. Good for diversity though I guess, not many Black/Asian couples in mainstream cinema is there?
     
  4. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I literally cannot think of one. Which makes me feel bad, to be honest.

    I ship Poe with anyone at this point. Everyone. Closest we got to honest polyamory in the old continuity was Delilah Blue.


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  5. tatooinesandworm

    tatooinesandworm Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 30, 2015
    Isn’t it obvious by now this person is just chumming the water? They replied to the first post and have added nothing of value to the thread. Literally nothing.

    Best to stop responding to the intentionally oblivious poster to the sole purpose of this thread. They know what they are doing and are using this thread as a personal playground. There is no other reason to bring stuff up like, “why no Islam?” When they have already been gay bashing for the last couple posts.

    And yes, when making statements like Disney should be afraid of the backlash if they include a gay character, it is absolutely gay bashing at that point.


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  6. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2013
    I love you guys.
    I want Poe and Finn but I'm resigned it's not going to happen. If they let Poe at least be gay - and preferably get a boyfriend too - I can be very happy with that.
    I'm very skeptical it'll happen though.The fact that people will be upset about it means we really need it though, just like we needed Finn, Rey and Jyn.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  7. nancipants

    nancipants Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 16, 2017
    Baze and Chirrut could have been a married couple and literally nothing would have changed about the story. So arguing that a same-sex relationship would take over the story or divide audiences is ridiculous.
     
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  8. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 24, 2013
    Maybe I'm not giving Disney enough credit. They have rocked the boat with progressive diversity - and despite controversy they've been very very successful, but as they've yet to include a gay character on screen, I just don't want to get my hopes up. I expect we might get some minor gay background character but will they actually let Poe be gay? That's a bigger risk. The same audiences who'd be seeing the movie though are pretty comfortable seeing gay characters in lots of other movies and tv shows. In reality only the worst homophobes would be bothered by it, just as only the worst racists were bothered by Finn, and that didn't hurt their profits enough for them to be bothered.
     
  9. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Pretty sure some people thought Baze and Chirrut were a married couple, or at least a couple.
     
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  10. nancipants

    nancipants Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 16, 2017
    I mean, I like to still think that.

    It annoys me that nobody on the production team thought, hey, why don't we actually do the thing?
     
  11. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 24, 2013
    I still think they were a couple, but it's frustrating that the closest thing we get to LGBT characters on screen is characters that are open to interpretation. It's better than nothing I guess.
    On a similar topic back in the day I read Kenobi as gay, until the Clone Wars series there wasn't anything suggesting his orientation one way or the other and that was just my take on him. Of course, now that he's had female love interests it doesn't preclude him being bi/pan, but unless it's explicitly stated that they're not (Leia is the only character who's probably explicitly said she's not) then it's possible, but that's not really satisfying the way direct representation is, of course.
     
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  12. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Dre Parker and Meiying from the new Karate Kid. And that's all I got so I think I join Sin in feeling bad.

    I can see that, even if they seemed to me as brothers-in-all-but-blood
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  13. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I honestly could debate that it even qualifies as a romance--until the kiss there's nothing specifically pointing in that direction. They could well "end up" together but TLJ in and of itself is just Rose developing and revealing a crush.

    Quoting for emphasis.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  14. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Headcanon: Rose thought she was about to die and wanted to go out big. When she wakes up on the Falcon she's going to be mortified.
     
  15. Darth Sith Saber

    Darth Sith Saber Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Don't you think that classifying everyone who doesn't 100% agree with your opinion as a bigot is, well, a bit bigoted? There are a great many reasons people may object without being bigoted, including their own PROTECTED reasons such as religious reasons (which don't automatically mean they hate people of certain characteristics - in fact, contrary to common perception, the majority of people of religious beliefs that include prohibition of single sex relationships care deeply for people who do have single sex relationships, they just don't want to have to see certain aspects of it in child-friendly movies), or because they themselves are homosexual, bisexual or whatever other aspect of LGBT they identify as, but don't want to be pandered to an patronised... And hard leftism is just as dangerous as hard rightism, and politics should be kept out of media... And, like you say, for those who love to see people in child friendly movies, there are already a lot out there, there's no need to swamp SW with it, TLJ didn't suffer from Finn having romantic moments with Rose instead of Poe, did it? If that HAD happened, there would have been a backlash from many people, the majority of whom are probably not bigoted in the slightest, and that would cost Disney a lot of money in terms of lost sales of tickets, DVDs and merchandise going on, so yes, I do think they care.

    I can tell that this will probably end with someone wanting to slap a label on me (just remember that you don't know anything about my age, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, religious beliefs, status, etc and would probably embarrass yourself if you tried, not to mention probably be making a libelous and unfounded accusation in doing so, if anyone was to attempt to) for not agreeing with the direction of this thread so I'm out unless I really need to respond, but yeah... Unnecessary inclusion and division is unnecessary.
     
  16. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  17. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
  18. tatooinesandworm

    tatooinesandworm Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Didn’t Vader have Droids to reassemble his helmet? Look at all those FINGERPRINTS! the Horror!

    At least rub the lotion in after moisturizing.


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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  19. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    I mean yeah but
    you can't deny that's highly problematic, and if you're using that as an excuse to argue against inclusivity that is also problematic.

    Jus' saying.
     
  20. Palizinha

    Palizinha Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Disney Channel has a gay main character in Andi Mack, so I guess Disney "protecting the children" is just gone now. Not that Cyrus' crush on Jonah comes up that often, but is it an actual spoken subplot.
     
  21. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    I reject your premise and offer as an alternative roughly the entire history of media in general and art in particular.

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  22. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    I challenge the premise that choosing not to include or talk about things is apolitical.
     
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    As a parent I challenge the premise that an LGBTQ couple holding hands or kissing is not “child friendly” and raise the notion that telling my children that an LGBTQ couple being any more “morally wrong” than a heterosexual couple is not at all friendly towards the inclusive values that I am teaching them.

    Veggie Tales is not at all child friendly, but Chirrut and Baze definitely were, and Finn and Poe holding hands would be.
     
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  24. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 24, 2013
    If anyone in the media is being pandered to, it's straight white men.
    And to be clear I'm not bashing straight white men. I have many straight white male friends (really!) but it's just a fact that the world we live in and our media is centered around them.
    As a gay man I face many problems in society. Being pandered to is not one of them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  25. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Just the fact that straight white male is considered the default, and portrayal of any other demographic is considered a political statement of some sort, is straight-up pandering.

    That’s why I always ask when these discussions come up, why is it acceptable to view the straight white male as the default if one is concerned about political statements?