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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 3, 2016
    Hell, I think Lucas was always somewhat political with these films later on. Especially in the prequel trilogy.
     
  2. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 17, 2007
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  3. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 2

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    Sep 3, 2016
    I don't think we really could have asked much more from them tbh.
    Of all the new films there's been 2 female leads, a black guy, an Hispanic (Oscar Isaac apparently is Hispanic) and Rogue One was a smorgasbord of different races, and for all we know they were all gay. There hasn't really been a single major "white male" character (other than villains) yet other than those that had to be because they were established on other movies.
    Showing a homosexual relationship still hasn't happened it's true, but give it time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  4. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 2

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    Sep 3, 2016
    As far as people saying that Disney are "scared of backlash", there's almost certainly some truth to that. It's not necessarily a sign that they themselves are being intolerant or discriminatory but they're playing a very complicated game with this sort of thing
     
  5. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 24, 2013
    In a way, I've been waiting for forty years. I feel like I've been patient.
    To say that all the cast of Rogue One could be gay - well, besides that the one kiss we see is opposite sex, just to say characters with no expressed orientation could be gay, while true, is pretty unsatisfying.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  6. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002



    I'm not obsessed or anything.
     
  7. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    how can you not be obsessed with that swagger
     
  8. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    @Endor_boy You might be interested to know that the reason Yavin IV is Poe's homeworld is because the Yavin IV scenes were filmed in Guatemala, where Isaac was born, so he'd said that he wanted Poe to be from there, an the comics creators obliged.
     
  9. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 24, 2013
    I liked the OT connection with Yavin IV. The Guatemale connection is pretty cool too.
    I do think it's noteworthy that so far the comic hasn't established Poe's orientation, so at least that door has been kept open.
     
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  10. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 17, 2007
    This guy has to be in contention for like every role in Hollywood, right? He's magic on camera.
     
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  11. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    Speaking AS a straight white man, I'd like to take a moment to say that anyone who doesn't think my demographic is insanely overrepresented in (American) media is completely out of their karking mind.
     
  12. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

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    Jul 8, 1999
    As long as they don't use Mark Hamill's depressing-ass Luke backstory.
     
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  13. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    that explains what happened to the green lightsaber tho
     
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  14. Slater

    Slater Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 12, 2014
    So, I have been sick the past week and replaying Republic Commando, and afterwards decided to re read the RC novels, and it has led me to very bemusing revelation in light of all the anger directed towards TCW for whitewashing the Mandos. If you don't count the actual clones there is jack **** for diversity among the major Mandos and the hanger ons in the RC novels.

    Kal,Vau,Mij,Rav,Parja,Vhonte,Ny,Etain,Bardan,Besany? Everyone, white as stale bread. Lots and lots of brown hair though. This is an especially jarring revelation for me, because as of now I'm pretty sure in both RC and TCW the only non whites in anyway attached to the Mandos with an important role is Jango and the Clones themselves in both. Not excusing TCW at all, but Traviss' reputation for diversity is in fact incredibly overblown which is really weird to me in light of how attached she is to mandos, and all the praise Mandalorians get for being diverse. Infact, as far as RC goes, with this in mind the Mandos are coming off as white saviors to the clones in my head, as they feel kinda bad for making millions raising child slave soldiers who all happen to be a minority when none of them are.....

    Obviously this wasnt intended but eeeshhhhh

    Also, I'm pretty sure Kal Skirata is causing me to develop logomisia for the word "son"
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  15. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Knight star 2

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    Sep 3, 2016
    I sort of pictured all the Mandos as being a bit Maori-like, with tan/brown skin. Not sure if they're described as white-skinned or not? I probably just missed it.

    Besany was definitely a typical white girl in my eyes though . . .
     
  16. Sannom

    Sannom Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 14, 2011
    I can't help but feel that there was a point behind that portrayal, homogenizing the looks of the Mandalorians to draw parallels to some sort of fascist utopia that the Mandalorians' glorification of war, warriors, violence and bloodshed led to. A far cry from the "Sparta but without the slaves" society that Traviss made them into.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  17. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 5, 2006
    Has anyone covered the openly lesbian scenes depicted in the Aphra Comic? Disney owns marvel, ergo....... proving ground?
     
  18. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 2, 2012
    There's two issues at work when it comes to Republic Commando, one which is something of a Traviss flaw and one which was unfortunately out of her hands. Traviss, in general, doesn't do a great deal of physical character description. Places, things, food, ideas, mannerisms—you'll hear about those, often in depth. But physically speaking, people are generally defined only enough to develop a vague image sufficient enough to move the plot along. She works off a general template not unlike a live-action casting call: male or female, tall or short, old or young, fat or thin... On rare occasion you'll get hair, eye, or skin color. So, unfortunately, you ultimately get a lot of "white assumption" for characters that are very much not defined as white in the actual narrative.

    Which brings me to the second issue: secondary media defined the appearance of many of Traviss' Republic Commando characters without her. She's on record as saying Ed Harris wasn't how she envisioned Kal, that was merely artist Robert Hendrickson's interpretation of the character, which ended up repeated by every artist that followed. Entertainment Earth is responsible the appearance of Mij Gilamar and Rav Bralor, not Traviss. According to a friend of mine who read both Bralors—Rav and Parja—as Asian from the text given, and later emailed Traviss back in the day, she confirmed that had been the intent before EE made other choices. Vau's also described in accordance with how he appears in the Republic Commando game, though whether that's as a white man is up for debate. And Vhonte Tervho is fully Tom Hodges' character, referenced in RepCom as thanks for all the other cool Mandalorian art he contributed.

    And speaking of Hodges, he was an enormous boon to the establishment of a diverse Mandalorian people where EE in particular so spectacularly failed. Unlike the toy makers, Hodges actually had an open channel with Traviss, and moreover, he listened. Leading to some great artwork of, among others, the multiracial Mirta Gev and black Novoc Vevut that came out in time with their appearances in Legacy of the Force. LotF thankfully managed to avoid much of the secondary media issues that plagued RepCom when it came to the Mandalorians, and it's from there that Traviss' vision for a diverse Mandalore subsequently remains strongest, with its depiction of various characters of color, Fett's strong diaspora narrative, interracial families, and gay characters all sharing center stage.
     
  19. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
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  20. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 29, 2003
    Related to Gamiel's post above, and sci-fi in general: By chance I saw the most bizarre apocalypse film the other day, very late at night. I never heard of it before. It was probably due to Black History Month, which is a shame, because they probably never would have shown it at all and why it was on so late (1AM) is also a bummer. It was called "The World, the Flesh and the Devil". Like any apocalypse film, do NOT look it up before you see it, because that will ruin the whole plot. It was made in 1959 and stars a black man who happens to survive a strange apocalypse (no spoiler details) at the start of the film, and continues trying to live in post-apocalyptic New York. As an apocalypse suspense film it's entertaining, but having been made in the 1950s as a stereotype breaker it's even more fascinating. It's rare to see old sci-fi directly take on racism that way (indirectly yes with aliens=diversity/tolerance/etc, but directly for the 1950s, especially film, it's remarkably rare).
     
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  21. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
  22. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Knight star 2

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    Mar 25, 2014
    Well, at fifteen Leia said that she's not. If you'd asked me at fifteen I would have given you the same answer (and I would have been very, very wrong).
     
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  23. Sannom

    Sannom Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 14, 2011
    I resent your use of the plural :p . In the current canon, he's had one love interest period and that was Satine. After that, he became married to the job and was ensnared into a one-sided extremely passionate relationship (you know with whom, everyone does).
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  24. Supreme Leader Woke

    Supreme Leader Woke Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 29, 2017
    I want to say Neda the eopie, but something tells me that’s not what you were going for.
     
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  25. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 6 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002