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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Olive skinned, almond-shaped grey eyes, straight black hair - which is how all the people from Katniss' part of District 12, the Seam, are described (Katniss, her dad, Gale and, in the book, Haymitch). The wealthier merchant class of District 12 are described as fairer skinned and generally blonde (Peeta, Katniss' mom, and Prim is described as taking after her mom). Because the stories take place in a nondescript distant future, the impression I got was that Suzanne Collins was describing a distinct racial phenotype, but not necessarily one that exists in the modern day. The auditions for the film, unfortunately, specified "Caucasian" for Katniss, when based on her description she could be a broad spectrum of ethnicities. (Given that District 12 is meant to be vaguely Appalachia, it's been suggested that people from the Seam are based on Melungeons.)
    It's got to do with that yellower/greener undertone, as opposed to reddish or more pale.

    ALSO IT'S NOT UGLY
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  2. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

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    May 3, 2015
    Pretty sure "olive skinned" comes from the color of "olive oil".
     
  3. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    Green and gold undertones? really green undertones, I guess they are seeing something I am not.
     
  4. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
  5. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    From left to right, 1 and 2? Gold? yeah I see it. But I don't see green in 2 and 4.
     
  6. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Mranakinfan is third-generation Italian-American with some Apache mixed in, and has to this day been called both white and nonwhite depending on where he is. He’s made jokes about being a nonwhite with white privilege.

    And he and my youngest have both been described as “olive skinned.” My oldest is as pale as I am.

    As far as Katniss, she was definitely whitewashed. I hate the Hunger Games movies anyway because the focus became too much on Jennifer Lawrence and not the story, particularly on Lawrence’s looks. Katniss was also not supposed to be especially pretty.
     
  7. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I read the first book right before seeing the movie so I was already aware of both the casting and the controversy--I honestly can't say how I would have pictured her otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  8. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    [​IMG] this maybe?
     
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  9. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    I pictured Peeta much pudgier. Also I pictured Cinna as Ru Paul out of drag.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  10. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    Maybe...I just searched for fan art I remembered just before the first movie came out. Its all reader interpretation.
     
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  11. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Of course! I'm just saying that's what I happened to picture.
     
  12. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    To be totally frank, I've always tended to file "olive-skinned" as another case of "people's ethnicities really shouldn't be compared to food."
     
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  13. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    Starbucks skin scale?
     
  14. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

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    May 15, 2006
    Even though the book described him as tall dark and handsome, I pictured Finnick as creepy Sewage Joe from Parks and Rec after that initial creepy "Want a sugar cube?" scene. I was watching a lot of Parks and Rec at the time and the way that scene went down was like clutch Sewage Joe.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Speaking of diversity, anyone Star Trek Discovery just did a FANTASTIC job in their season finale. Look at these shots:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Humanity in all of it's brilliant shades! Not only that, but a truly diverse Federation is show. Just look at that crowd. Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites, all united in the ideals of the Federation and Starfleet. THIS is Trek at it's finest.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  16. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    Of course that would contradict Azetbur's line in Star Trek VI. ;)
     
  17. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    There are ways to explain that...
     
  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The simplest being that she's exaggerating, and baiting - she's not nearly as enthusiastic as her father about the whole "peace" thing - and only carries it on after his death because she promised him she'd support his efforts no matter what.
     
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  19. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2016
    And also (not that I know the context) one line from a less-enlightened work shouldn't have to impact or lessen current and future diversity in the name of meticulous continuity, right?
     
  20. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    I figured she was being sarcastic, given that really only Spock and Gorkon were "enthusiastic" about the peace process.
     
  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The comment was a response to Chekov's rather poorly worded comment about rights:

    Chekov: We do believe that all planets have a sovereign claim to inalienable human rights.
    Azetbur: Inalien. If only you could hear yourselves. Human rights. Why, the very name is racist. The Federation is no more than a Homo sapiens–only club.


    That said, it did seem a bit nitpicky - reminded me a little of Fey'yla in the X-Wing books.

    Borsk Fey'yla: "You refer to us as 'alien,' and the Princess calls us 'non-Human.' Why are we defined by you and in comparison to you?"
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  22. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    "Well, you call everybody else non-bothans, it's like your people define us by your standards and in comparison to you. So I guess we live in the same glass house."
     
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  23. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I mean, it's literally conservative mockery of so-called SJW whining.

    I think it's petty commentary (both Azetbur's and Borsk's), and some of it only exists because of the problem of writing a universe with other sentient lifeforms in a language that isn't really prepared for it, to an audience that hasn't had to think about it. It's purism, imo.

    I never took Azetbur's comments seriously, and I don't think they were meant to be taken seriously. She's presented as a whiny college girl meant to be laughed at for being so ridiculous. She's not presented as someone who has a point, she's presented as someone who does not have a point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  24. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    I think it's probably a somewhat credible criticism from someone who, unfortunately, would rather have a Klingon centric government.
     
  25. Admiral Keller

    Admiral Keller Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 15, 2017
    I'll take Legends Mandos over NuMandos any day of the week and twice on sunday. I loved the idea of a group of warriors, some descended from the original race, with other species not just let into the ranks/clans but welcomed as long as they shared the ideology of what it means to be Mandalorian. Edit: Sidenote...I think Sabine would have fit so well into old Mando culture, where everyone was warrior but they had other trades and skills beyond that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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