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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    No, we should retroactively insert him into the prequels as Anakin.
     
  2. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    ...

    I can suddenly see AOTC becoming a *lot* more popular. Esp. the scene on the Naboo lake house.
     
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  3. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Well he can't deliver that awful "sand" line any worse than Christiensen did.
     
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  4. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    More importantly:

    [​IMG]

    LOOK! HE HAS HIS THUMBS IN HIS BELT! JUST LIKE VADER! And he's got the height, without needing some lame "platform cyber-leg" excuse. :p
     
  5. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Now, now, Uli, this is the diversity thread... you shouldn't be picking on Hayden just because he's short. :p
     
  6. cthugha

    cthugha Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Funny how this is like the only EU thread where Lucas is almost consistently the good guy :p
     
  7. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2012
    Lol, well he is married to a black lady right? So its not like its a shock that Lucas notices diversity. Unlike a certain editor.
     
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  8. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Interestingly enough the New Jedi Order sourcebook kind of does say as much
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
  10. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000

    Now, wouldn't it be nice if we had some NJO or post-NJO EU to address that, esp. the humanism that came after the fall of Coruscant?

    Instead, we got bugkriffers and LotF.
     
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  11. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    The Legacy comic at least were pretty good in this, with non humans serving prominently in each of the factions.
    Whilst the NJO novels also have a surprisingly diverse New Republic military and Senate, even the Peace Brigade looks to be pretty varied, much to Sal-Solos dismay when he is tasked with running it.
     
  12. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 2, 2010
    In a, very, very qualified defense of the Killik concept, the idea of pheremone based slavery among eusocial insects is a real thing, and if extended to sentient species (which is not really any more absurd in concept than sentient slugs with distributed nerve clusters as in Hutts) raises a bunch of intruiging ethical conundrums that could certainly drive a cool story. Of course the idea was completely botched because clearly no one involved in the series had any idea how eusociality actually functions, totally failed to understand that reproductive potential is not the only limit on economic growth potential (the entire argument on why the Killiks are a big deal is based on their ability to lay hordes of eggs, this is simply stupid), and made the whle Joiner process work through some 'auras' cop-out instead of having it be straight chemical (which would have actually made sense, but of course would have made the Killiks far less threatening because everyone could just avoid the problem by wearing filters).
     
  13. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    Dark Nest did mention that the Kiliks were settling on new planets for that reason were the ability to generate new generations in large numbers and very quickly once they have access to the resources to sustain them is certainly a very useful thing for them. Also wasn’t it explained that the Joiner effect was indeed pheromone based? With major problems only coming into it when they got trained force sensitive Joiners, whose force powers would kind of melt into a collective sub concessions. Plus Chiss troops did indeed wear protection gear against it, but would have it removed if they got captured by the Kiliks.
     
  14. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Breeding faster doesn't make your crops grow faster. It doesn't make the extraction of spatially limited resources much faster (you can only drill so many mineshafts or wells). A high reproductive rate certainly increases growth potential, but the DNT was written as if the Killiks were at some sort of tipping point and if their expansion went on for a matter of months they would suddenly be unstoppable and consume the galaxy Zerg-style, which was an absurd contention.
     
  15. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Thing is they dont need to eat crops, they will consume just about anything (whole forests are mentioned as example) once they take a new world and only then start to set up agriculture or even worse just move on to the next planet with part of the newly expanded Nest, which can then be supported with food grown on the last world before moving on again etc.

    Of course, but they were continually acquire more worlds and ships (with which to acquire new worlds at an even larger rate), as long as the Nests cooperated in this expansion the only thing that could limit them is someone or something killing them off before they got to new worlds.
    If they take down the Chiss who else in the local neigherhood would be able to stop them? Once there are enough of them with the ability to move around and be resupplied from worlds they had already taken it would certainly be insanely difficult to contain them, as there would be the need to blockade whole swath of the Unknown Regions and essentially poison every world they have already settled on.
     
  16. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    This quote from the NJOSB never really made sense to me. We don't really see these tensions in the EU, plus the NJO really deserves credit for showing a very diverse Senate and Defense Force.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  17. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Borrsks government sort of hints at it, with his council being actually majority non humans (5 of 9 if you include him) as do some of the senate debates and “petty conflicts” that carried over from the Hand of Thrawn novels to the NJO.
     
  18. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I agree that the novels of the time don't really seem to back this up, but I think it's a necessary evil to explain what's really a pretty ridiculous disparity between the NR era and the rest of the timeline.
     
  19. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 3, 2012
    meh i dont see any good in universe reasons and we all know the out of universe ones
     
  20. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 2, 2010
    Well, the New Republic does more or less completely fall apart during the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion, which is not exactly the most likely expected response from a democracy placed under outside attack, at least under a human dominated setup. The initial call for all-out military resistance was led by human rebellion-era figures, so human-alien tension could explain the rejection of that approach. Invasion (for what its worth, anyway) is pretty clear that Borrsk at least believes the Yuuzhan Vong are fabricted to discredit him. Suspiscion of humans is one of the few things available to explain such a mind-numbingly stupid conclusion (seriously Borrsk is a jerk and super self-centered, but he's not a moron).
     
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  21. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    As mentioned I personally always figured that it was a carryover from the events sort of kept hanging from Hand of Thrawn, with the Republic members getting in all kinds of small conflicts once Coruscant went hands off, otherwise it really doesn’t seem to be all that supported in the novels themselves, though of course it could have been happening big time in the background.
     
  22. Kyris Cavisek

    Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 12, 2012
    Don't forget Lowie's Diversity Alliance...
     
  23. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    I'm listening to the Mercy Kill audiobook now. I appreciate that the narrator gives different accents to some characters. However, I also find other accents...a bit of a strange choice.

    Piggy basically sounds like Bane from Dark Knight Rises.
    Bhindi is Steve Irwin.
    Scut is Inigo Montoya.

    Then, more broadly:

    Trey is heavily Midwestern.
    Kell is definitely Texan.
    Runt is Russian.
    Shalla is Jamaican (I guess because she's black and has dreads?)

    I also found the comment about there being no Gamorrean word for calculus interesting. They've been a (and had contact with) interstellar-level civilizations for thousands of generations, yet have never either developed the concept or adopted it from other cultures? Is that supposed to mean that Gamorreans are simply biologically too stupid to understand something as complex as calculus?
     
  24. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I wouldn't call it biologically stupid -- if you take the example of real people, some people just can't handle the abstraction involved in calculus. So while it's certainly possible to be too stupid to do it, a perfectly intelligent person might just not have their brains wired to be able to do it. Some people are bad at spatial reasoning. Others can't handle nonverbal communication, etc etc.

    ...or maybe Piggy was making a funny.
     
  25. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    :oops:
     
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