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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Look, really wasn't trying to pick on Sweden, it's just that the Nordic countries are, stereotypically anyway, the source you'd turn to for a monochromatic blond-haired blue-eyed population.
     
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  2. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Yes but even Europe today has some diversity
     
  3. Rilwen_Shadowflame

    Rilwen_Shadowflame Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2005
    In any case, I think the consensus is that the Clone Wars animators need to be hit over the head with pretty much every preceding work of canon featuring Mandos. In hardcover format.
     
  4. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Welcome to my world

    The only good thing about the episode was the fight. Why is it so hard to get good fights in a series called The Clone Wars?
     
  5. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    I think it's been pretty much decided by this point that the New Mandolorians are very, very different from everything else involving the word 'Mandolorian' in the EU. This is needlessly confusing yes, ut the incongruities can be pushed under the rug that way.

    Time and money. Complex fight choreography is expensive to produce and cumbersome to manage. Additionally, with the way computer generated animation works, showing characters in a 'damaged' or otherwise unusual state means creating an altered model (my favorite example comes from Beast Wars, where they had to make something like 4 versions of Dinobot for the different stages of 'Code of Hero').
     
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  6. Mia Mesharad

    Mia Mesharad Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Yeah, while I've come to accept the New Mandalorians as a pacifist faction within the larger culture...I'm really tired of the all white, blue-eyed, blonde brigade. Like Rob, I was hoping maybe something could be done with the crowd shots. Would it have been that difficult to use heads and hands from the Onderon character models with New Mando clothes? I guess so. And still no aliens, either. Great...

    It really is seriously disappointing when one of the most explicitly inclusive societies in Star Wars—whether in regards to race, gender, species, or sexuality—is remolded into something so terribly bland.

    With Jason Fry's retcons that establish the New Mandalorians as a separate but stand-along faction to the warrior clans, there's a surprising amount of Fridge Logic/Horror that arises with how they differ.

    'Scuse me while I award you the internet you just won by referencing Code of Hero...
     
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  7. Skaddix

    Skaddix Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2012
    True but some parts of Europe have been diverse a good long time. But its not all that different from America. Diversity is concentrated in major cities.
     
  8. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    We have discussed the Rebel briefing on Home One before and folks seem spilt on how "diverse" that scence is, given the still high proportion of WHM's, especially among the Rebel pilots. I still think that Lucas deserves ALOT more credit for the diversity in that scence. Regardless of the exact count of aliens, females, WHM's, and the like, the following fact still remains:

    Lucas chose a middle aged woman to the the leader of the Rebellion. Lucas chose a alien male to to be the highest Rebel military officer. THAT is something that at the time was probably far more suprising and groundbreaking to fans in 1983 that it was to the vast majority of us 20-30 somethings. I truly believe that Lucas was making a statement in the characters of Mon Mothma and Ackbar.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  9. cthugha

    cthugha Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Not sure if that's been talked about before, but I just saw the Dramatis Personae of The Last Jedi ... out of a total of 17 there are 6 humans (4m, 2f), protagonist & cover boy among them, "of course"; still, the quota could be worse.
    What struck me as particularly interesting though was the (relative) diversity of professions, including some that we normally don't get in SW novels: apart from the usual resistance fighters and criminals we get:
    # Antarian Rangers (yay!)
    # a Gray Paladin (yes, we knew that; but: different Force traditions FTW!)
    ...also some more down-to-earth professions such as:
    # mech-tech
    # journalist (well, former journalist, and we knew that, but at least it's something like a relatable professional background)
    # police prefect
    ...and lastly, wonderfully,
    # poetess!

    Because even though it's not directly related to the point of this thread, I do think we need more characters with day jobs that are not "Jedi", "smuggler" or "Sith lord".

    Oh, and I5 is listed as "sentient protocol droid", which I like.
     
  10. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    You know, now that you mention it, we don't discuss diversity of age very much do we. I mean, it is not as bad as race and gender issues, but it can still be noticeable in media. Especially when it comes to female characters: in a lot of fiction, if the RA had a female leader, she would be Leia instead of Mothma. And when you do see old women, they either look ridiculously young (Mara is a big offender here) or a stereotypical hag, instead of a very stately looking person like Mothma.

    In particular, your comments reminded me of this character again:
    [​IMG]
    And it makes me thing of the human female pilots of Rogue Squadron....who, as far as I can remember, are all young and pretty (though Plour gets a lot of diversity points for being very masculine and never getting an aseop on how to be more feminine, even after it is revealed she is a princess).

    Come to think of it, the human males are also young and handsome, whereas there was more than one aged and frumpy looking pilots at Yavin.

    I agree completely.
     
  11. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    cthugha where did you see the DP for The Last Jedi? That book's not out for a month.

    And I think we're all missing the importance of Prune Face.


    :p

    But seriously, at least seeing Dressellians and some Sullustans in the briefing scene was a big step for Rebel diversity.
     
  12. cthugha

    cthugha Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Random House posted a preview. (Front matter and what looks like the first pages of every chapter, confusingly... though I didn't look at it too closely, so may be wrong.)
     
  13. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    What? Awesome!
     
  14. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    More like probably awesome until you read what she considers "poetry". :p
     
  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    If it's blank verse or some other form of iambic nonsense I am going to have a fit. And if there's rhyming, I may have to scream. :p
     
  16. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    There once was a man called Palpatine,
    Who had a very big concubine,
    One of whom gave birth to a swine.
    The boy had three eyes,
    And that made him cry,
    Which was why he was always confined!
     
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  17. cthugha

    cthugha Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2010
    No offense, Zor, but that was probably the botchedest Nonlimerick I ever read :p

    (Intentionally, I guess [face_thinking] )


    EDIT: but we should totally have a Limericks thread sometime! :D
     
  18. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    How dare you question my masterpiece! I have been working on my Trioculus Opera for the past ten years!
     
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  19. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Back to the drawing board, I'd say.
     
  20. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Scored the Last Jedi DP and got a 76, which is one of the highest scores yet--and there's still the possibility that "Degan Cor" could turn out to be nonwhite.

    It's great to see Pol Haus will be back as well, and it's very interesting that Kajin's not in there--I had actually assumed that was him on the cover, not Jax.

    Oh, and "Aren Folee", awesomely, looks to be a Millennium Falcon reference.
     
  21. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2009
    I'm still waiting for Thrawn: The Musical. Because he should have a Disney villain song.

    After a quick research, I dare you to watch the Gaston song from The Beauty and the Beast and imagine Thrawn and Pellaeon in there.
     
  22. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Pelly is DEFINITELY LeFou.
     
  23. cthugha

    cthugha Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Me too... also I thought his storyline was the most interesting one of the the last CN installment, so I'm kind of disappointed he won't be in this... unless he is, and is just not listed or listed under a pseudonym. But then, why would you spoil the surprise by putting him on the cover?

    Because, come on, no way that tously boy on the cover is our grizzled film-noir hero Jax.
    [​IMG]
    ...come to think of it, he reminds me a little of boy Anakin...
     
  24. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Relevant: Bleeding Cool has done an analysis of the gender demographics of the top five comic publishers' staffs. Short version: not great anywhere, but DH wins. One more reason to root for them keeping the SW contract.
     
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  25. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Interestingly enough, I finally got around to reading the newest Mass Effect comic series yesterday, and I was thinking just last night how diverse each page looked in terms of all the different species you could see in the background rather than just a page full of WHMs, so Dark Horse definitely seem to put more effort in than most people.