Lit I'll be honest...

why?

The death star plans were stolen by Bria Tharen, by Kyle Katarn, by some Bothans, by Bria Tharen a certain way, by Kyle Katarn actually stolen the plans this way and not that other way.

So?

You didn't see thread in the Lit arguing about consistencies.

And there were no bring back the real way the death star plans were stolen threads.

 

I'm... Not sure what your point is.

My point was that LFL just ignoring everything that came before, not talking about it or addressing it, and going right into new stories without any kind of statement on it, would make fans upset. It would seem like they didn't even know it all existed. There would be no clear divide of what is and is not canon. At least this way, they seem to show some respect for the older works while doing their own stuff.

 

Thanks for the update, Big Ben.

Sent from my Moto X-Wing

 

No problem

 

My relationship to the EU and Star Wars is basically that we had a messy break-up after a long period of indifference only for us to get back together after we decided to make some changes in our lives. The relationship is now filled with a lot more hope but it's got a good deal of baggage leftover with a sense we've wasted quite a bit of time. We're hesitant to move forward as quickly as we did before and things are solid but not quite as wild or magical.

For me, the Old EU became a toxic relationship with Legacy of the Force. The loss of Anakin was a gut punch but so was many of the other "friends" I'd cultivated in the goofy land before from Lusa
to Dorsk 81 to the fact Tahiri became a complete nutjob obsessed with her dead teenaged boyfriend. Things were hard but it wasn't until Jacen Solo died an irredeemable monster and then an entirely new tribe of Sith was created only to be used as cannon fodder that I realized...I just didn't care. They'd destroyed the New Republic I'd followed for a hundred books to replace it with a shell of itself (I HATE the Galactic Alliance) and reveled in democracy being a complete failure. The last of the Solo-Organa bloodline also became Queen of the Space Nazis.

It was like a light being switched on but I realized, "This didn't happen." I was exerting my Star Wars fan veto over the universe that the past two major series were so agaisnt my view of what Star Wars was about that it had broke my connection to the universe. My idea this was all part of the universe. Luke would never order his own nephew to be murdered, Leia would never let her son destroy democracy, and Jacen Solo would never become a completely insane parody of a human being with as much motivation as Joruus C'boath.

I was willing to accept Waru and Pittens but this was as out of character as Captain America joining HYDRA and becoming their leader. Once I realized it wasn't "them" then the entire ediface broke down. I considered Crucible the end of the Old Expanded Universe and with a good sense of this song.



That's when I got my apology note from the Expanded Universe. I went back to her house and found out she'd thrown out most of the horrors we'd gone through and everything was back to normal. The Imperial Remnant was back (hi Hux), Jaina was back with a new name but no Imperial ties (hi Rey), and the New Republic was once more standing proud. There was one element which I loathed still around but Jacen Solo walking around as a Sith Lord was slightly more palatable this time around.

The fact I see my old friends in the new characters is something which may me being projecting but it is how I view it. It's pretty much the EU as it was, just with some new names and a less nihilsitic more optimistic ending.

 

Act 1, Scene 1

Enter Mu in front of a giant mansion.

Mu knocks on door.

Butler answers door.

Butler: What do you want?

Mu: Um, Is this EU Ranch?

Butler: Who wants to know?

Mu: I'm Mu Tryles, just tell EUnia an old friend is here.

Butler: Whatever. Turns, exit.

Much later

A woman enter

Woman starts kissing Mu on both cheeks, Mu is uncomfortable.

Mu: Uh... Hi? struggles out of hug. Is Eunia here?

Woman: Who cares? By the way, you can call me Deee.

Mu: Okay, Deee, listen, my friend Eunia asked me to meet.... Here. Do I have the right address? Last time I was here it was only a cabin....

Deee: Come in come in, you are just in time for dinner. My cook is trying something new called Lost Stars.

Mu enters mansion

Act 1, Scene 2.

Mu Thanks for dinner Deee, Lost Stars was really delicious. But I must go, I still need to find my friend.

Deee: Dont' worry, you can even spend the night. My footmen will find your friend for you. Claps hand. MAID!

Maid enters. shackled. Proceeds to slowly take away dishes.

Mu shocked: Here, let me help you. Wait Eunia? What...... Turns to Deee in outrage.

Deee: Oh don't mind the maid, Claps hand, footmen comes in, Take Legend out of here. I don't want this no good servant in my sight again.

Deee looks at Mu, Now where were we?

 

Charlemagne19 good post. I do have to add though that although there might seem to be similar story themes between TFA and LOTF (might end up being similar story themes between the entire ST and the book series as well but we will have to wait to see how it plays out) I don't think however there was any intention to make Rey like Jaina or Ben like Jacen. Infact I would be very surprised if any of the people involved in creating the story for the ST even read LOTF or any of the EU for that matter. I think the similarities are there simply because both stories are re-imaginings of the OT.

I think why it was a lot easier for fans to accept Rey and Ben being part of a semi reboot of the series than it was for Jaina and Jacen to be a part of a retelling of the OT was because Rey and Ben were brand new characters. Rey and Ben hadn't been around for about fifteen years, become heroes of a galactic wide war, started having kids of their own, only to be thrown into a OT reboot.

There is no denying that TFA was a soft reboot of the movie universe but they did it about as well as could possibly be done. Giving us new interesting characters that we can learn things about to distract us from the fact that it was basically the same story that we got in ANH. If they wanted to give the EU a soft reboot as well they should have done it similarly to how TFA did it. Set the reboot off into the future with brand new characters being the leads. And Jacen and Jaina could be put into the Obi-Wan mentor type role.

 

I think most of the EU had run it's course, but if I were to ask for anything it would be for Legacy to continue as a sort of "Ultimate" title. Heck, with IDW doing some of the comics it makes me think Dark Horse could've remained for at least this one series. God, I wouldn't want Marvel touching Legacy.

 

I totally understand how you feel. The loss of the EU was a heavy blow to me but their is hope. Many legends content eventually end up in canon and even though the books don't seem good on their own,as a whole they create a strong continuous web of nucanon which is far more organized than the old EU ever was. Just give it time.

 

This debate again?

There was never even remotely a chance that the EU would have survived the announcement of a ST. Had Lucas done the ST, he would have ignored the EU (since he never considered it as canon anyway). Had Lucasfilm been sold to another company, they would have scrapped the EU too.

 

Great posts, but we've been through this before. The best way to look at this is Star Wars 1.0 under gl and now, 2.0 under Disney. The stuff from before will still carry as much weight as each of us give it. The difference is that we can't impose from before to now. For one, it's a different regime doing things and second, it's not fair for the new stories to be downcasted to what came before. New era, new followers. Now with this said, I love the old Eu stories a lot and for me are still canon. My chief complaint is that we don't need every animated series to be damn canon. I want exciting 2d stories like avengers assemble and ultimate Spider-Man.

 

You see? Disney? See what you have done?
There was a united Star Wars fandom (pretty much), and now it's all fragmented into bitter camps.
Even schism in the same camp.

 

What the hell are you going on about.

 

The attitude towards the old EU had become very poor by the time Crucible rolled around to the point where people were openly just giving up on the whole thing. Trying to say that there is anymore bitterness now than there was before is just wishful thinking. Infact there is probably a lot more positivity going around now because people in general have been liking the movies and tv shows overall.

 

Hahahahaha. It was never united.
There were movie purists, OT purists, PT purists, anti-Marvel comics fans, movie and tv purists (eventually). Anti-NJO, Anti-Clone Wars, Anti-Bria Tharen, Anti-Death of Anakin Solo, Anti-Death of (Whoever) fans.

I've watched Star Wars "die" so many times, yet here I am, and here it still is.

Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk

 

The united front it had is just something the facebook groups have been trying to preach.

 

well when you put it like that.

 

I'm more excited about Star Wars now then ever. That's not to say I didn't love the old EU. When I discovered it after ROTS, it's what kept me into Star Wars and expanded my love for it. But by the time it started, we were a few books into LOTF. So I was never able to see it develop and everything I loved about it was already released. I spent years reading most of the Bantam and Del Rey books and had a lot of fun. It became my Star Wars. However, the LOTF and beyond really ruined it. The killed Jacen in an illogical thematically inappropriate plot, destroyed Jaina Solo's characterization, threw out all of the cool development for the NJO, rewrote numerous other characters to serve the plot, and turned the Remnant into the heroes. By Fate of the Jedi most of my favorite characters seemed to lack personality and were very different from who I knew them to be. The themes of Star Wars were abandoned and the stories became needlessly dark. So I was quickly losing interest in the universe I had discovered. I'd occasionally look to see if any interesting new books had been released and then buy them because I cared about the universe. But I lacked excitement.

When the reboot happened I was upset. I felt it was unnecessary and didn't see myself becoming attached to a new universe. I initially had no interest in reading the new stuff. But it only took a few days for me to decide I'd give it a try since the books seemed interesting. And I soon found that the new stuff revitalized my interest in the saga.

The NEU has brought life back into the universe. I'm actually looking forward to each new release, in every medium, now. It all seems interesting, and there hasn't been much I didn't enjoy. I'm enjoying the opportunity to see the universe develop. It's a nice change from coming when everything has already been established. Rathe than ruining characterizations, it's creating a lot of interesting new characters. Far more than was create between LOTF and Crucible. The universe feels alive again. Also, there's a lot more mystery in the NEU. In Legends we pretty much new everything there was to know. In some ways the NEU has added more complexity to the universe. As a result, I've become more interested in Star Wars than ever before. There's a lot of fun to be had with the NEU and that's how Star Wars should be.

 

This. Honestly, the EU was extremely ridiculed by many movie or movie/TV-only purists, to the point that many considered it worse than the PT (which is saying something, for those of them who were OT purists). The idea that there was this harmonious, united fandom that all loved the EU that we had before Disney's buyout is...ridiculous, at a minimum. And even among EU fans, there was not unity. You had those who loved Karen Traviss' Republic Commando books and her way of writing Mandos, while others thought they were the worst thing ever. You had many fans who hated LOTF, while some defended it for having good qualities. You had what seemed to be a majority who loved NJO, but actually quite a lot who didn't enjoy it at all, either. For any book you could find that was "universally" loved, it had its detractors, too. So no, there was never some utopian, grand harmony between all Star Wars fans that Disney killed with the Legends announcement. In fact, from what I can tell, there's more unity in general now than there was before, with only two general factions: Pro-Disney buyout and Anti-Disney buyout. But even within those, there are different views.

 

Hm....

l wouldn't be annoyed this much if there were at least one adult novel carrying the plot forward. Enough of this Journey to the next movie. I'll go to the movie theaters to enjoy the movies and find out what happens next. Not what happened before.
Now we'll get episode 10, 11, 12 in 5 years, 13 14 15 in 10 or 12 years. With novels set in between them. Journey to the next movie novels.

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As far as novels go, No one knows how dark disney novels would get. Lost Stars, a YA, is already a kind of tragedy, with Imperials being very sympathetic men and women. So I wouldn't say the theme of moral ambiguity is gone. We'll likely have some books with Imperial heroes again, at work killing some rebel scum.

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My wish is 1)Brand new books for the now "Legend" EU set in 200 ABY 2)Adult novels bringing the plot forward. No more Journey to next movie.

 

Even the new comics have been lacking. Both Poe Dameron and Doctor Aphra had very poor initial story arcs and Poe Dameron has never really had a solid story arc over a year and a half later. As for Doctor Aphra, I wish this who Ordu Aspectu stuff would disappear and we can get onto something different and less goofy. The main Star Wars title began faltering with issue #21 (the beginning of the "Flight of the Harbinger" arc) and has stumbled through a Yoda arc and now this Screaming Citadel arc. None were bad, but neither were really engaging and the Screaming Citadel, for an event, was a huge let down. It definitely did not live up to its predecessor Vader Down. And the art in the new Darth Vader title is atrocious. Why hire an artist that cannot even draw the main character correctly?

The problem is the EU did much of what they are attempting with new continuity better and it is beginning to be more apparent now. Dark Horse had holocrons and a rich, interesting history for the Jedi, not this Ordu Aspectu nonsense. And Poe Dameron is trying really hard to live up to X-Wing Rogue Squadron, but hasn't quite been able to get there. And I loved the journey from Star Wars to the Empire Strikes Back told in the Marvel series and newspaper strips. The current characterization of Luke, Leia, and Han are really, really off IMHO. Luke is a loner, Leia is not nice, and Han is too attached to the Rebellion (in the EU, he didn't stick around after the Battle of Yavin.) I get we are charting new territory, but some of what the EU offered made logical sense for these characters.

I think the first 1.5 years for the new comics were very promising. Currently, the stories have been taking a dive in quality, but I'm very hopeful they will improve, especially since Marvel will be doubling the number of issues we will be seeing in the coming months as well as IDW introducing their new line of Star Wars comics.

 

The Ordu Aspectu is actually a redone version of a legends story.

 

I think the mods should really end this before it gets out of hand. It always gets out of hand! We've had this debate too many times and it never gets anywhere.

 

There are two ways to build your OC.
You can have established character helping your OC, fight side by side, and eventually have the established character retire/give up the baton. Have your OC made superior than the established one by sheer merit and hard work.
Or
You can introduce your OC, bash the established OC into a pulp, with your OC shown as superior simply by being showing up.

This is what happened with Jaina/Jacen/Anakin in NJO, and now Rey in TFA.

SpecForceTrooper

I disagree. This is exactly what the NEU purist want. They see any Bring Back Legend attempt and find a way to have threads locked. These threads are here as some sort of petition system. Without them Disney doesn't know that there are people who love the EU and want it back.

 

Unfortunately, I posted not realizing this was a EU versus NU session. I'm not bashing NU, I'm just disappointed the best of what came before hasn't been tapped and we've been getting lackluster stories from Marvel lately.

Regardless of if Ordu Aspectu was done in the old EU or not, the story as told in Doctor Aphra is a poor Star Wars story. To take such a promising character and have her 1st story be about an artifact that hold the essence of a past Jedi (or maybe a fake version of the past Jedi?) who can control droids is way more silly than much of what many fans consider outlandish in old Marvel continuity. And having this premise as the basis for the Screaming Citadel event was hard to watch. Marvel should just drop the idea and move on with the character. There are many more interesting things that can be done with Aphra, Triple 0, BT-1, and Black Krrsantan. Bad ideas are introduced all the time, but don't try to polish them, just drop them and go on. All IMHO of course.