ILM To Break New Ground in New HULK Movie

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by Master Salty, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah actually what are your arguments that The Hulk will be this year's Godzilla. I don't think anyone cant take it seriously on your heresay. Godzilla was done by a pair that liked big budget popcorn extravaganzas. Although I'm sure the deal between Sony and TOHO caused some problems. Besides it's not like Ang Lee is a newcomer or hack director, he really knows how to direct people and tell a story. I remember how people doubted the original Batman when Keatin was casted. I was one of them actually until I saw him in Clean and Sober.

    It might be a good film. I think there are other better candidates for a Godzilla monicker like T3 or Charlie's Angels 2 but we could discuss that later ;-).
  2. AnakinSlave2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2003
    He looks like the Jolly Green Giant. And yes, I'll be sitting in the theater come June.
  3. danjedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    If WETA made the Hulk youd all say it looks like crap even if it looked exactly the same.
  4. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    If WETA made the Hulk youd all say it looks like crap even if it looked exactly the same.

    Don't bring LOTR into this thread. It's not the place for it. [face_plain]
  5. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    > If WETA made the Hulk youd all say it looks like crap even if it looked exactly the same.

    From what I've seen of FX discussion on this board, most people have respect for both ILM and Weta.

    Don't assume that everybody writes of Weta as a FX house simply because we're all Star Wars fans.
  6. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    What a lot of people seem to realize is all the ILM - Weta connections. It's really pointless when so called fans have to detract one place for the other because it's fashionable, or blind fanboyism for the movies.

    Anyway Weta Digital was formed thanks to a former member from ILM, Wes Takahashi, who traveled to NZ to basicly establish it, he showed them what was needed and setup a basic pipeline. It was just a couple of computers in an office. Second, for the LOTR trilogy, even before they started filming, Peter Jackson and a group of people from Weta Digital visited Lucas where he showed them how pre-viz was done for Ep. 1. Apparently they got blown away and setup their pre-viz unit like that. Peter Jackson has visited Lucas and the ILM gang now and then. More recently, fot the Two Towers and Return of the Kings, Joe Letteri is the direct Weta Digital Supervisor (Jim Rygiel acts more as the overall supe and is a bit more on the side of production). Joe Letteri was a longtime member at ILM (maybe around a bit over 10 years) and supervised several projects there including much of the Star Wars special editions and Magnolia. I believe there are many other former ILM employees working at Weta.

    They even share many techniques. For example the sub-surface scattering used in Gollum's skin and Dobby's skin, is based on the Henrik wan Jensen paper (he was at Stanford at the time), which required a raytracer. Christophe Hery, Associate VFX Supe at ILM, made a persentation at SIGGRAPH on the RenderMan newsgroup about using shadow buffers to be able to create SSS effects. They had also presented some other useful techniques like ambient occlusion. I believe much of Gollum's skin shader was inspired by these techniques (though implementation might vary a bit, but Weta Digital is also a Maya PRMan house).

    On the other hand who knows, something like Massive may inspire a similar tool at ILM and other places, or the way they did some of the models (the Venkat Krishnamurthy paper on using a combination of surface fittings techniques and displacements maps, from scanned models). Heck even a guy from Weta released Liquid open-source which could be a substitue for RAT (though ILM might get it for cheap from Pixar). I'm sure as the artists come and go (especially after Return of the King finishes when a lot of artists from Weta will go back home), there will be quite a bit of cross-pollination of ideas and techniques.

    Invariably The Hulk will use SSS in the skin shader, no two ways about it. The good quality still from it look very promising indeed.
  7. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    That's very impressive information.
  8. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    What does anyone think of the trailer that been out around the past two weeks?
  9. HKChicago Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 2
    I think the newer trailer shows some improvement in the textures, and I'm confident they'll have no problem making him look great in terms of photorealism. My initial comments on this thread were that I was impressed by the movement (the physics are a bit off - he wouldn't stay grounded while tossing the tank, etc.), but in terms of fluid movement I think it's good. I'm going to assume most of his movement is keyframed since there's no one to actually stand in for motion capture (I'm sure you guys have the real info on this).

    I don't think this movie will flop, DD was a 2 star movie at best and did well in its premiere. Hulk has much more brand recognition - not Spidey level, but a magnitude higher than DD. And Ang Lee has a good name with the market too, so I'm sure the movie will be a success.
  10. scuiggefest Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    HULK DESTROYS ALL!!!
    [image=http://www.incrediblehulk.com/hulkposter.jpg]
    [image=http://www.incrediblehulktvseries.com/HulkMovie/HulkMovie5.jpg]
  11. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    I agree, the expanded SB trailer shows even more improvement. The compositing is more refined and also the animation. Some shots look almost final like when he is grabbing something in the lab and thrwoing it. The bit I also like is the view of his cells, they almost look like real microphotography.
  12. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    The problem for me personally is that he is too big. But it's not a problem I'll lose sleep over.
  13. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Well they're just staying true to the comic regarding his size. He's not suppposed to be a big guy in green paint, he's supposed to be 15 feet tall.

    I think he looks pretty good. Is he going to be photo-realistic? Of course not, they're not there yet. But no effect is perfect.
  14. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I never realized the HULK was 15ft tall. I think this will be a pretty good movie. I don't think it will be Spider-Man level but it should do better than Daredevil.
  15. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    `he's supposed to be 15 feet tall.'

    That's the thing, it's said he changes size with how angry he is. Actually, I complained when it was 3am in the morning. What I'm really wondering is after Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Ang Lee isn't using the coloured Hulk ideas, which I've heard about since this film was made. But that's not a LucasFilm Project complaint.
  16. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    Well I never heard any rumors of having a green colored guy even considered for the film, except maybe a few instances of Eric Bana. There was a lot of speculation because Rick Baker was involved at some point. Some thought that there was going to be a combination of CG and prosthetics. But in the end he seems to only have worked on the design. There is not even confirmation that the final design is his or not. After he exited it was announced the Hulk was going to be all CG. A couple months ago there was a news item that said Kevin Yagher created sculptures to be scanned by ILM, but that's about it.
  17. HKChicago Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 2
    The bit I also like is the view of his cells, they almost look like real microphotography.

    Agreed, I've also always wondered why we don't see more of this instead of the over-stylized biological effects... I never did like the DNA effect in spiderman.
  18. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    Judging by th latest update on TF.N mainapage, I guess I was a little hasty.
  19. HKChicago Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 2
    Yeah great update... but I can't find any other reactions from SXSW on the net. I gotta see some stills of the Hulk!
  20. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah great update except for the fact it's kinda misleading. It was Universal who relelased more footage of the Hulk made by ILM. ILM doesn't go to ShoWest.

    What is SWSX anyway?
  21. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    Now that the new trailers out, does this show the quality of the `New Ground?'
  22. malducin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 4
    Yes it does, too bad it's just streaming. Hopefully the US version trailer that will premiere with X2 we'll be able to appreciate more the quality.
  23. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    1 minute, 4 seconds into the newest trailer = lovely.

    1 minute, 25 seconds into the newest trailer = lovely.

    And with time to spare left, I'm sure the rest will do nicely.
  24. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    From what I've seen, everything is looking very nice.
  25. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6

    And once again I up this thread for reasons no-one else cares about. :p


    Whether Ang Lee was directing adulterous suburbanites, Southern racists, crouching tigers or hidden dragons, his diverse characters all had something in common: They were living, breathing, multimillion-dollar-check- cashing actors.
    But "The Hulk," opening June 20, is a different beast. The veteran filmmaker is making the leap from flesh-and-blood dramas to special-effects blockbuster -- without so much as a fake explosion for a transition.
    Lee admits that, when it came to special effects, he had "no idea what I was talking about" as early as last year, when he started filming in the Bay Area.
    "In some ways my innocence helped bring freshness (to the movie)," Lee said during an an interview earlier this month. "I think it's good I wasn't scared that the movie relied on (computer-generated) characters. I didn't know enough to be scared."
    Lee's decision to direct "The Hulk" surprised fans of comic books -- along with fans of his movies.
    His previous films include "Sense and Sensibility," "The Ice Storm" and "Eat Drink Man Woman," which were as far away from gamma rays and rampaging green behemoths as cinematically possible. "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" in 2000 proved that Lee could film action, but the movie's wire stunts and blue- screen backgrounds involved few modern special effects.
    But Lee says his latest job made sense to him, with "Crouching Tiger" serving as a transition to "The Hulk." The filmmaker was drawn to the project at first by his comic-reading school-age sons, later realizing that there was a surprisingly complex character in the middle of the pulp action.
    "That grabbed me right away," Lee said. "I was on the way to doing something like that in 'Crouching Tiger,' to mix serious drama with pop art. I got a taste of that and thought I could do that bigger."
    Once the director was onboard, "The Hulk" needed a location. In the comics and TV show, the monster is born on a desert base in the Southwest, where Bruce Banner (Eric Bana in the movie) is exposed to gamma radiation.
    New Mexico was changed to UC Berkeley to get Hulk near a big city, a move that Lee was happy about.
    San Francisco "is one of my favorite cities in the world," Lee said. "I would probably rank it at the top or near the top. It's small but very photogenic and has layers. It's like New York. You never have problems finding great angles that people have never done."
    Locations for "The Hulk" include Berkeley, Treasure Island and Telegraph Hill in San Francisco. Filming for the most part was kept secret, but an extended trailer displayed for some journalists and exhibitors shows that the Bay Area is used to the fullest.
    Lee seems particularly fond of helicopter shots looking down on the city streets, where the Hulk wrecks at least one cable car.
    Although Lee put his own mark on the film, most of the main plot points in "The Hulk" mirror the comic. Bana plays Banner, a student who gets a dose of gamma radiation while working on a secret military project. As a result, whenever he gets mad, he mutates into a huge green creature. ("You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.'')
    Jennifer Connelly, Sam Elliott and Nick Nolte round out the cast, while television Hulk actor Lou Ferrigno has a cameo.
    Unlike the comic and the TV show, the lead character in "The Hulk" is more than twice the height of a normal human. The computer-generated Hulk wasn't created until the filming sequences were over -- when Lee settled into an office across the street from Industrial Light & Magic in San Rafael.
    Lee describes his education at ILM with wonder, like a parent who goes to a rock concert and discovers that his kid's favorite band actually has good musicians.
    "This is the best part of making the movie, I think -- making the movie at ILM. It was pretty much a contrast to what I expected it to be," Lee said. "They call it Industrial Light & Magic, but there's
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