TOR I'm a year late, but...

Discussion in 'Games' started by Mzukiller, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    Does anyone else have a problem with ehe fact that Revan and the Exile were just...destroyed by TOR?

    I mean after years of Kotor and build up, in the span of months they just trample all over two characters just to advertise a new game. I read the "Revan" book hoping that they'd at least done some justice there...but that was even worse.

    Why? Why would they do this?
  2. The Kulvax Sisters Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2013
    star 2
    Money.

    I totally agree by the way, DK is a sell out, BiOWare are ultra-sell outs and I hope the new Obsidian RPG gives the characters justice, be them as ghosts or whatever.
    Mzukiller likes this.
  3. Grand Admiral Strife RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2001
    star 5
    Remember this game is 300 years after the events of KOTOR, but people still wanted to know what happened to Revan. What did YOU want to have happen to the characters? It was already established at the end of KOTOR II (a terrible game, I might add, thru no fault of Obsidian, it was due to LucasArts' arbitrary timeline to get the game out) that Revan left to go find the threat to the galaxy that turned him to begin with. The book establishes that by having him go on a quest to find out what happened to him. I think the book was more to establish (spoilers, book and MMO) the backstory for the Sith that winds up joining the Jedi cause in the MMO to take down the Sith Emperor. Plus, the book was needed to explain why Revan is in the MMO at all, again given that it takes place 300 years after KOTOR.
  4. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    I feel accusations of 'trampling' are way overblown. Yes the Revan/Exile situations involve some unusual circumlocutions to handle the 300 year time gap (a gap that was necessary in order to allow the Jedi and the Republic to Republic from the wreckage they were left in at the end of KOTOR II by the way). other than that though, what exactly is the big deal? That Revan loses his mind to some degree after being tortured for 300 years? That Meetra Surik spends a bunch of time as a force ghost? The pair of them can be considered to have saved the galaxy by influencing the Sith Emperor. Is that somehow bad?

    TOR is filled with references to KOTOR I and II, considerably beyond just Revan's presence. Most of these references are highly respectful and in particular really liven up the Taris portion of the game.
    son_of_skywalker03 likes this.
  5. Mugwuffin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2012
    "Does anyone else have a problem with ehe fact that Revan and the Exile were just...destroyed by TOR."

    This first part of the Revan novel is great... the second part is disappointing (I literally threw the book across the room when they did... what they did T3). But that for me is solely because BioWare have a taken a PC and turned him into a full blown character and in doing so he can't be the uber Jedi he was in the KotOR. The Exile was never overly interesting to be begin with for me, although I do enjoy KotOR 2 with the restoration mod.

    The references to KotOR 1 & 2 in TOR are very respectful... but including Revan just to make him "disappear" seems like a rather strange decision. In a Sith flashpoint Revan is defeated and then just... disappears. He isn't killed... he just vanishes... does he turn into a force ghost, does he use fold space to bail out at the last moment... who knows?

    It just seems rather wasteful to use this particular Star Wars franchises' most known character in such a half-baked way. I believe DK gave an interview saying that they aren't sure what to do with Revan at the moment so they just removed him from the "situation" until they can come up with something worthwhile.

    But if that's the case why not save the flashpoints to begin with for something more substantial... it's all rather strange. They want it to be known Revan is around... but they don't know how to use him effectively.

    Having said all this Revan is still by far my favourite Star Wars character... even more so now in a strange way, I'd just like for the character to have a quality end to his arc and not just "vanish".
    son_of_skywalker03 and Mzukiller like this.
  6. Mzukiller Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    What's bad is that it reduces the Exile to a Revan fangirl, even though she saved quite possibly the Universe itself, that has zero self confidence. Also making the event of KOTOR 2 completely irrelevant and it makes Nihilus look like a bitch, because here comes this Mary Sue of a Sith Lord that can do everything he can for no reason at all.

    Also, I had a mental picture of my own Revan/Exile and giving them faces just destroys it.
  7. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    First, the idea that Meetra Surik saved 'the Universe itself' is based on the most generous possible reading of the completely delusional Kreia's ramblings...which simply isn't very likely. She saved the Republic from a major Sith threat and allowed it breathing space to rebuild, all of which is quite important and hardly reduces her to a Revan fangirl. Someone had to die for the plot to work, they could have chosen either character, unfortunately 'Revan' works better than 'the Exile,' so the choice is obvious.

    Second, KOTOR 2 woks very hard to make it's own ending irrelevant and Nihilus look like a wimp, given the gaping holes from cut content and that the principle challenge of defeating Nihulus is finding where to plant the stupid bombs. Vitiate is not a Mary Sue, he's the principle villain - that term doesn't even properly apply to villainous masterminds , and yes their schemes are similar but it's not like the 'drain massive quantities of innocent life force, use it to become a god' plan was invented by Darth Nihilus, it's one of the oldest plans out there. They don't even fight you in the same way - the final confrontation with Vitiate in TOR is centered around dealing with a bunch of mental clones (and is actually one of the hardest single-player fights in the whole game).

    Um...too bad? Any truly popular video game character who begins existence as a cipher is going to eventually be defined further because the fans will want to see them in other media. It had already happened to Jaden Korr and it will almost certainly happen to the eight TOR protagonists when the time comes. Frankly non-ciphers make for superior storytelling anyway, though they restrict game options.

    Granted, this was a cop-out. My guess is that, should TOR maintain the player base to sustain it, they'll eventually pull Revan out of the box again during some expansion for whatever purpose in order to produce a quick infusion of interest. It's frustrating, but that's marketing.
    son_of_skywalker03 likes this.
  8. Mugwuffin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2012

    Oh I think that's a given, we'll see Revan again for sure... I imagine he'll headline an expansion down the line.

    As for the game... not a big fan of the Cartel Market but the game itself is in a much better place these days than it was at launch.

    Hopefully it'll weather the next few MMO's that come to market. (or maybe not and we'll get a KotOR 3 to wrap it all up... maybe that's just wishful thinking.)
    son_of_skywalker03 likes this.
  9. TheRevanchist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2012
    star 2
    I liked Revan novel. I didn't liked the part when the Exile was defeated from that Sith Lady but other parts of the book were good. Revan was good, but still the Emperor was more stronger than him, I have nothing against it despite being a big Revan fanboy.

    But I don't like how he was portrayed on TOR. They just used it to get players to play the game because of him. Likely they are saving him for sometimes later, in this game or in another. Don't like the milking of a character (especially when he is one I like) but that's the way it is.
  10. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    That book.... :rolleyes:

    Glad I decided against paying, er playing the game.

    I still haven't read a review or watched a video clip that inspired me enough to change my mind.
    And, I was soo looking forward it.
    [face_waiting]
  11. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I haven't tried out TOR yet but I'm playing KOTOR for the third time right now so I'm interested by this. How exactly did they explain Revan surviving for three hundred years? And then how long was he in TOR's era before disappearing for no reason?
  12. Ani501st Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 3
    In TOR, Revan is kept prisoner by the Emperor and you need to free him so he can continue his quest to save galaxy. He was not prisoner in a cell, he was prisoner in something that looks like to how Obi-Wan was in AOTC when Dooku talks to him.
    It is not a problem for me. First because I did not played KOTOR, I only play TOR. Secondly, I did not read the book. Thirdly, it is EU so it is not a problem for me.