JCC IMDb for Hollywood/Celebrity/Famous sexual predators

I think a more responsible journalist/media outlet would have printed the story without naming names. The article could then have been the basis for a healthy, productive discussion. Instead they went for the publicity bump of „outing“ an award winning celebrity.

 

In the Law Courts there are differences/scales of criminal offending and subsequent sentencing so the distinctions exist whether anyone likes it or not.

 

To be blunt, I think the #metoo movement isn't very well served by having McGowan and Milano as two of their most vocal spokespersons. Let's be honest, neither has the most impeccable reputation, nor is someone who would blind you with their intellect. I applaud them both for their courage in coming forward and being vocal, but to say there's no difference between a pat on the butt and being raped, from the perspective of both the victim or the perpetrator, is ridiculous. Varying degrees of guilt and wrongdoing are a central part of most or all criminal justice systems.

It doesn't matter much to the victim of a homicide if the person who killed him did so in 1st degree murder or negligent homicide, but we still don't punish them the same. And I hardly think th victim of harassment carries anywhere near the same scars as someone who was raped.

That doesn't mean the victim of harassment doesn't suffer, or the perpetrator shouldn't be punished. And the offenses certainly come from the same background and are part of the same conversation.

 

Um, I don't see how Milano's and McGowan's previous reputations could possibly factor into this?

 

And IIRC one of if not THE best way to handle the latter encounter is to snigger and mention how small it is.

 

Nothing in terms of the veracity of their accounts of what they've endured. But a significant role in terms of their effectiveness as spokespersons.

 

I think they're doing fine. Ashley Judd is also another great spokesperson for the movement.

 

Their reputations may well be part of the Weinstein propaganda machine, same as Sirvano was put through to discredit her. Unless you have first hand knowledge, I’d be wary of buying into it.

 

just read the article on aziz

firstly:

After arriving at his apartment in Manhattan on Monday evening, they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.”

lol. this is obviously a very important detail as to Aziz's sinister attitude.

there's a lot in that article and discussion itt about her being clear that she was uncomfortable, and that he should have read her signals better. i thought i'd break the signals down into two groups - i'm interested in sex signals and i'm uncomfortable signals, that were both clearly communicated to him (i'm ignoring the stuff in the article where she's simply discussing what she felt at the time - 'the abruptness' of leaving the restaurant with wine left, for example; and only including signals leading up to the mirror incident, which is where she does then say 'no' and they return to the couch and dress - albeit he tries it on a bit again after that).

uncomfortable signals clearly highlighted to him:

when he goes to get a condom, she says to him 'let's relax for a sec, let's chill'
moving her hand away from his penis on a number of occasions
30 minutes of moving around the apartment while he followed her (?)
pulling away and mumbling
stopped moving lips and going cold
saying 'next time' when asked where she wanted to be ****ed
saying “I said I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you,”
saying 'I'm not ready to do this' in front of the mirror, where they then stop and put clothes back on.

interested in sex signals clearly highlighted to him:

going back to his apartment on the first date
hopping up on top of his marble countertop
allowing herself to be kissed, touched on the breast, undressed and for him to undress himself
allowing him to perform oral sex on her
allowing him to put his fingers in her mouth and vagina
going down on him when he pointed to his penis
continuing to make out with him on the couch

i would say it's definitely mixed signals from that. the move from being naked, making out, performing oral sex, to actual penetrative sex isn't necessarily a giant leap - its not like this shocking revelation that when receiving a blowjob, a guy would also desire penetrative sex. he gave no indication of trapping her against her will in this apartment. I'm not sure why it's shocking that someone may want to have sex with you when you're sitting on a countertop, and allowing yourself to be undressed, kissed, groped, and having oral sex performed on you. it was obvious he wanted sex, he made that clear. if she didn't, she could have just said 'actually, i don't want to do this. i feel uncomfortable. i'm going call a cab'. hanging around naked, and continuing to perform sexual activity when you know you don't want to have sex and you know the guy does, is risking sending a mixed message.

aziz was being a dick. thinking with his dick. he actively pursued sex and ignored her uncomfortable signals. but she still actively gave off some positive ones too, and could have stopped it all at any point. i don't think it's sexual assault personally. it does highlight the minefield of sexual relations with people you don't know very well though.

 

How do we know though that she wasn't afraid that he would get violent, that he would harm her? Just because she hasn't said so in her story, doesn't necessarily mean that wasn't going through her mind during this encounter. I've had a date or two where the guy made uncomfortable advances, and while he did ultimately back off when I said I wasn't comfortable, the thought of him possibly not caring and being violent crossed my mind in the midst of it.

 

i guess we don't know that. but neither would Aziz, either.

if you don't know how someone will react to saying 'no', and are therefore afraid to say it, you're putting yourself in a potentially very dangerous situation. and it also means you don't know the person well enough, and probably shouldn't be in his apartment in the first place if you don't want sex.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=azi...0j69i60l3j0.2891j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

This is going to come off insensitive, but have you seen Aziz Ansari? He is both short and thin as a stick figure drawing. I find it difficult to imagine anyone being intimidated by his physical presence. You could argue that he has professional power over her if she worked for him. I'd even accept it if they were colleagues due to him having seniority over her. But that wasn't the case here.

Edit, apparently Vivec made the same point in a much funnier way.

 

And then they might pull out a knife/start beating on you. People might understandably not want to risk that kind of thing. People have said multiple times that they've felt pressured into things they didn't want to do because they were afraid of being put into danger if they didn't comply. This happens. All the time.

I don't understand the disconnect here. You don't have to be penetrated to be traumatized. Someone doesn't have to forcefully have sex with you to cause significant psychological harm. And @Violent Violet Menace, someone doesn't have to appear physically intimidating to you every day to feel potentially dangerous in the moment.

And this is straight up victim blaming.

 

Non-verbal communication, especially between strangers, can be fraught. It's simultaneously a big part of how we understand events and very culturally dependent, thus subject to our individual biases and misconceptions. It's very possible, in consequence, for someone to see threatening behavior even where none exists, or it doesn't seem logical that any threat could be carried out. That's even more the case if a person has been primed to view the other as in some way threatening because of a feature or mannerism of theirs.

This route, though, has implications that should trouble us in several directions.

 

well, no, because i don't think she's a victim. i made that pretty clear in my other post.

 

There's an app for that

Yeah, that's not gonna work.

 

Padme had spoken.

 

The app is flawed as consent can be withdrawn.

 

And you know, say I Bill Cosby you, JJB, get access to your phone and say you give consent. The whole app is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

But don't you see. By giving her white, making that choice for her, and the fact she didn't feel comfortable saying anything about it shows he was already domineering and in control. Or something.

 

Does it even have any effect on Trump?