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Immolation scene

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Alpha-Red, Nov 21, 2005.

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  1. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    When I first watched it, I really expected one of two things: either Obi-Wan would try to help Anakin out and Anakin would try to lash out at him, or Anakin would call for help and Obi-Wan wouldn't trust him. I think this would've made the scene much more tragic given the context of the OT...I mean, Obi-Wan trying to help Darth Vader, right?
     
  2. Greedo_forever

    Greedo_forever Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 24, 2005
    Well, I think they tried to show this: Obi Wan saying "I loved you" etc... He seemed to show sympathy. And then Vader lashed out with "I HATE YOU". I guess that turned Obi Wan away with words rather than a strike (however, I speculate that Anakin would have tried to physically hit Obi Wan had he been closer...).
     
  3. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2001
    ...Which is why Obi-Wan takes away Anakin's lightsaber, to neutralize this threat, not just a conivenient plot device to provide continuity to ANH. :)
     
  4. JMN77

    JMN77 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Where? In the ankles? [face_laugh]
     
  5. Adm_Thrawn

    Adm_Thrawn Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2004
    He could bite him.
     
  6. JMN77

    JMN77 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Sep 19, 2005
    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]
     
  7. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    Anakin was originally meant to ask for Obi-Wan's help, but Lucas didn't want him to be redeemed in any way, so he changed that part.
    You can see in one of the DVD docs when they record the scene and Obi-Wan says "Don't ask me, Anakin! It was said you would destroy the Sith, not join them!" He sounds angry, not heartbroken. I like heartbroken better.



    Obi-Wan - his heart is broken
    /LM
     
  8. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    After the first complete take, Lucas and McGregor discuss where he should say each line: "As you watch Anakin slide down, how about if you take one step forward," Lucas suggests. "For a moment, you think about it. Your first impulse is to save him- but then you realize you can't."

    As the takes multiply and the actors find their rhythm and emotions, the scene becomes more and more powerful. Christensen yells, "I hate you!"

    McGregor says, "I love you. But I will not help you." Lucas explains that what Obi-Wan's really saying to Anakin is: "You were our only hope- and you blew it. Now we don't have any hope."

    Take. After Anakin implores Obi-Wan to save him, George asks Ewan to say "I will not..." softer, almost to himself. Take. "After he bursts into flames," Lucas directs, "it's as if you're talking to a dead person. To a piece of toast." He suggests, to drive home this point, that McGregor change the words in the script to the past tense, "I loved you."

    The actor acquiesces, but points out that his subsequent line would have to change to "But I could not help you." Lucas agrees, and Tenggren alters the script accordingly.

    Christensen groans to get into character, and then gives an emotional delivery of the two lines, "Help me, Master," and "I hate you!"

    --The Making Of ROTS, page 136.


    Lucas opted to leave out the plea from Anakin to make it look like he couldn't be saved. That there was no hope for redemption in ROTS.
     
  9. IH2

    IH2 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2005

    (however, I speculate that Anakin would have tried to physically hit Obi Wan had he been closer...).

    ...........It was just a flesh wound........
     
  10. Greedo_forever

    Greedo_forever Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 24, 2005
    [face_laugh]

    Anakin: "argh... Help me, master! Please!"

    ObiWan: "Well, okay, just this ONCE."

    ObiWan warily steps down to help the poor, barbecued young man.

    Anakin (whispering): "That's it... a little closer..."

    ObiWan (stopping in his tracks): "What was that?"

    Anakin: "ugh... nothing. Come here. Please... I'm in so much... PAIN!"

    ObiWan succumbs and leans over to pick up Anakin. The charred corpse pathetically tries to bite his former master's ankle.

    ObiWan (startled and angry): "HEY! That's it. You ARE lost!" (stomps off and picks up Anakin's sabre)

    Anakin: "I HATE YOU!!!!"
     
  11. uwishuwereme

    uwishuwereme Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2005

    =D= Thanks DS i didnt know that. But if Anakin was close enough he would have tried to attack Obi-Wan I think Ani should have atleast kind of thrown sand at Obi-Wan less of trying to hit him with the sand but more of a angry like "you did this to me, this is your fault" kinda throw.
     
  12. YoungAngus

    YoungAngus Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    May 7, 2005
    I really thought Anakin should of asked for help. It would be so much more powerful and show how much more he hates Obi Wan.
     
  13. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    I think it would rather show what a wuss he is.



    /LM
     
  14. Imperial_Hunter

    Imperial_Hunter Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Of course, you could have had Ani begging for mercy, to be tossed into the lava to end his pain, and Obi Wan telling him his fate was the Will of the Force.
     
  15. Drac39

    Drac39 Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2002
    [image=http://www.atmos.albany.edu/student/eric/BlackKnight2_small.jpg]

    Look you stupid bastard you`ve got no arms left
     
  16. Obi-Chron

    Obi-Chron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Think of Sidious in his compromising position against Mace, and then Anakin in the fiery pit. Sids, a Sith pro, plays up the 'help me, puh-leeeze' to the hilt. Anakin is a mere rookie when it comes to devious deception. Had he more Sith experience, he surely could have lured Obi-Wan into helping him via a compassionate ruse, tugging at his Jedi Master's heart strings.

    Anakin, in his Mustafar charred state, could physically do little against Obi-Wan. But he could have let his Master help him, then build trust, gain strength, return to Palpatine, betray Obi-Wan and destroy his former Jedi Master 20 years sooner -- maybe the little green guy too.

    I like how the ROTS immolation scene played out -- a little preachy, a bit 'over the top,' but the charring of Anakin was much, much darker than I expected even after viewing the spoiler pics on this site. Plus Palps shows a small snippet of 'humanity' when he reaches down and touches Anakin's forehead. This small but important act really threw me -- was he keeping Anakin alive, willing Anakin alive? I totally expected Palps to coldly stand some distance from his apprentice and direct the clones to 'tend to him.'

    Edit: small corrections
     
  17. sithrules70

    sithrules70 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 28, 2005
    Palps...humanity ??!!?:eek:.....lets face it he was only checking if anakin had tha feber[face_mischief]
     
  18. ZamWesell44

    ZamWesell44 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2003
    no, he was as close to humanity in that scene as ever.
     
  19. sithrules70

    sithrules70 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 28, 2005
    Palpatine and....humanity...cant..be...on..the same...sentence...[face_sick]
     
  20. Leias_love_slave

    Leias_love_slave Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2003
    darth-sinister, the more I hear about this book, the more I realize that I'm going to have to pick up a copy. It sounds like a fascinating read for a Star Wars fanatic like myself.

    I just wanted to add that there is also a scene in the 'Chosen One' DVD documentary where Anakin is lying at the bottom of the hill and Ewan can be heard saying:

    "Don't ask me, Anakin!" and then "They said you would destroy the Sith, not join them!"

    That first bit intrigued me - the idea that Anakin would actually ask for help and Obi Wan would refuse.
     
  21. tinkerbelle

    tinkerbelle Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2005
    The scene was very difficult to watch.
    It showed exactly how far, Anakin had devolved.Through all his pain, what could have been his last words, (if Sidious had not appeared) "I hate you!"

    Anakin/Vader had to blame someone for all his troubles, and it was Obiwan.
    Anakin remained blameless in his own eyes. Everyone had betrayed HIM.

    What he failed to realize was that he betrayed everyone, including himself.
     
  22. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    Why do people ignore what I say and then repeat it as if I never said it?



    Obi-Wan - he wants no questions
    /LM
     
  23. Annina

    Annina Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2005
    I guess it would have made Anakin just a little too sympathetic if he asked for help in that scene and Obi-Wan refused him "Don't ask me Anakin!" So it was definitely better left out...But that didn't REALLY help me at first though.When I first saw it I felt very bad for Anakin and was amazed how Obi-Wan could just leave him there to suffer and burn.It was just so sad that things had gone so wrong between them that he would rather leave Anakin to die in such a heartless way :(
     
  24. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 8, 2005

    Why would Anakin asking for help show that he was redeemable? Any Self centered Sith Lord would want to NOT DIE! No matter what! No matter. It was a great part of the movie, and it could have been great with him asking for him. I think I'd have had no complaints either way.

    Carnage
     
  25. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    If Anakin had asked for Obi-Wan's help and Obi-Wan had refused, that would have made Obi-Wan seem guilty for Anakin's complete turn to the dark side. Who's to say that Anakin wouldn't have turned back eventually if Obi-Wan had helped him?



    Obi-Wan - he is not guilty
    /LM
     
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