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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Imperial commando:Five-oh-worst.

Discussion in 'Literature' started by TK-421 Is vader, May 27, 2015.

  1. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Personally I never understod why the old EU gave the clones souch a stupidly brutal traning or had the kaminoas terminate every clone who fails by a sufficient degree.

    I prefer TCW approach where the training is hard but not really deadly and clones that are failures are given alternative duties.
     
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  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I think Traviss drew heavily on real-life military training courses - SAS and so forth - when creating the exercises Skirata used.
     
    Jedi Knight Fett likes this.
  3. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Over half way through book 1 now and I am really enjoying the different approach and vocabulary. :)
     
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  4. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Glad to hear it. Most do like the first one. I'll be interested to see if you like the follow up. I liked them all, but as may be apparent, that is not exactly the universal consensus.
     
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  5. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Indeed. I think odds are fairly good but I'll see. :)
     
  6. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    I think it is an unnecessary waste to kill imperfect clones. There's more people in an army than those firing the guns.

    I never really wondered before. Were the Kaminoans only supplying the fighters of the Army or the whole administartion, medical, logistics whathaveyou as well? Because if not, how die the Republic manage? x_X

    Cushing's Admirer Triple Zero is great as well. I like the whole black ops thing. :D
    Plus Walon Vau.
    And if you don't mind it slanting towards a (MIO) more daily-soap feeling as the series progresses, you should be fine with the story-telling. :)
     
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  7. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I don't like soaps but I think I'll manage thanks.
     
  8. Miriedis

    Miriedis Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 23, 2015
    It really did turn into Days of Our Clones towards the end, especially IC
     
  9. stung4ever

    stung4ever Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2002
    As I recall, the disposal of imperfect clones was about maintaining their reputation as top notch cloners.

    I believe they only provided the troops. We know the Republic drafted doctors and nurses (MedStar books), and it's easier to transfer bureaucrats and hire shippers than it is to train an army.
     
  10. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Yes, so several have said. I'll still see what I make of it. By the sound of it the squad of survivors is about to be reunited where I'm presently at in book 1. Things for the Padawan aren't looking good and it seems implied Darman has the Force. As I said I like how everyone's acknowledged thus far as Grey. I like the slow unveiling of noticing life as well.
     
  11. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    As you'll be going in TZ knowing that it's different to HC, I think that'll make for a far better experience for you CA.
     
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  12. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    How do you figure either? I don't KNOW any such thing. I know many here feel so doesn't mean I will. I may feel they are different but it's hardly a given besides I am known to not have common stances and I'm fine with that holding with these.
     
  13. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    For me what worked against TZ, in part, is that it wasn't the same as HC, which would be a reasonable expectation.

    Now you don't know the details of how it is, but I'd say you'll have got a sense that it is different somehow and can adjust your expectations accordingly.

    It's a bit like reading TUF in 2003 not knowing the galaxy will survive and reading it in 2010 knowing that it does, even if you do not know how it does.

    In short, when you finish HC, try not to have any expectations of TZ influenced by it.
     
  14. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I don't really. All I have here is a bunch of people telling me how things go down hill after HC. I'm not assuming anything much. Like I have said before just because I see many not liking a thing rarely has anything to do with whether I will do similar. Often it's the opposite like my turn about with Tarkin. It doesn't seem popular here so it seems good odds I may find it worthy and even respect it. Could be the same for the RCs.
     
  15. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Personally, I liked TZ just fine after HC. It's not the same again but for me it worked fine as a continuation of the story and a broadening of its universe.
    What bogged everything down later is IMO too many characters and too little focus.
     
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  16. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Jinart, Darman, Niner, and Fi are growing on me. Etain I don't really care for much and the other players are all rather bland and dour.
     
  17. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Jango, as presented in the AotC novelization viewed it as a job.(Quotes representing internal dialog, not spoken dialog)

    "Jango didn't care a whit about about politics or war or this army of his clones. If everyone of them was slaughtered then so be it."

    Which is the opposite of how Obi-Wan feels upon first seeing the clones.

    "The callousness of it all struck Obi-Wan profoundly. Units. Final Product. These were living beings they were talking about. Living, breathing, and thinking. To create clones for such a singular purpose, under such control, even stealing half their childhood for efficiency, assaulted his sense of right and wrong, and the fact that a Jedi Master had begun all this was almost too much to digest."

    Which, to me, is exactly how the Jedi should feel about the clone army. Even with them ending up leading the same army, I don't feel like there is a moral hand waving that can be done even in universe to pretend that folks all thought the clone army was normal. Needed due to extreme circumstances, absolutely. But not normal.
     
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  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don't think anyone thought it was normal, in fact, I think most of the Jedi probably felt the way Obi-Wan did. I think cloning itself was probably normal, but not cloning an army to fight a war.

    My disagreement with Traviss's entire assessment is, as I said, with blaming the Jedi for the army.
     
  19. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    So if Obi-Wan feels it is a problem both morally and ethically, then how does that make him that different from how characters in RC/IC feel?

    Maybe because he doesn't blame the Jedi outright for their creation(because he knows and trusts Yoda and Mace Windu)?

    Yet the Kaminoans are on the record that the Jedi, or at least a Jedi speaking on behalf of the Jedi Order(being influenced by the Sith), did commision the army.

    Who is someone like Kal Skirata supposed to believe? He wasn't exactly having sit down talks with Yoda & Mace - he wasn't privy to all the info that we the audience had. Realistically he was in the dark, yet he isn't suppose to blame the creation of the army on the Jedi despite the Kaminoans claims to the contrary?

    I truly do feel there is a disconnect between Karen's real world views and what gets presented in her novels. I don't think the first is truly representative of the second, at least not to the extent some folks make it out of be.
     
  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Skirata can believe what he wants based on the information he has. The audience, however, is privy to the same information that Obi-Wan has, and some still use Skirata's (and Traviss') arguments.
     
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  21. Grievousdude

    Grievousdude Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    I've just finished Hard Contact and enjoyed it. It has a very different style to the other Star Wars books but that's fine with me. How is Triple Zero different to Hard Contact? Is it because it focuses on other characters or is it a different type of story?
     
  22. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Thank you Robimus. With Jango caring that little about the clones, he might just have been setting up the training or at the very least helped develop it. He would have known how to best mould the clones into the desired shape.
    And he would know who of his fellow Mandos were broken, desperate or plain mean enough to make it work.

    Triple Zero is somewhat a different story. It is not war as much as covert operations, black ops even. You get more spying, more seek&destroy and overtly Mandalorian working style. Pluse a bigger cast. Two squads, several Nulls, two Mandos, two Jedi, Zey and Maze back and the Coruscant police force is intoroduced. And the urban setting is putting very different constraints on the whole operation. Going around shooting people and blowing things up is not appreciated. ;)
     
  23. stung4ever

    stung4ever Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2002
    Plus it kicks off the "Jedi are evil people, Mandalorians are freaking AWESOME" narrative.
     
  24. Miriedis

    Miriedis Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 23, 2015
    And it gets worse with every subsequent book
     
  25. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Or, if you're among the many fans who liked the books, it gets better with each.

    Seriously, I credit Traviss with re-sparking my interest in SW books after a long hiatus.

    I also don't get the Jedi-Mando duality--that if you like Traviss books, you must hate Jedi. I think it's the other way around, really. We love Jedi stories too. Reminds me of Cubs and Sox fans. Cubs fans for the most part cheer on the Sox because... yeah, Chicago! But Sox fans hate the Cubs with a passion and relish their losses.

    I'm a Cub's fan, by the way
     
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