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CT Imperial ground forces strength on Endor

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Darth Dobrolous, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. Darth Dobrolous

    Darth Dobrolous Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Does anyone have an estimate (other than Wookieepedia's) of the strength of Imperial ground forces on the Forest Moon during the Battle of Endor?
     
  2. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    The emperor states on film there is an entire imperial legion based on Endor. This should be 6,200 to 4,200 troops. However the number the of troops the film shows appears to be much smaller than that.
     
  3. texjrwillerjr

    texjrwillerjr Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2015
    minimum 4200 well trained stormtrooper and a few teddy beat beat them. holly crap!!!
     
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  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Palpatine's boast doesn't mean that he was able to actually deploy that whole legion against the Rebels - due to the environment it may be spread out over a large area.
     
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  5. icqfreak

    icqfreak Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 1999
    Yea there were probably a ton of scout patrols spanning a wide radius of the shield generator. Plus all the crews and troops inside all the walkers they had. And the bulk of the troops were probably in and around the main landing area, or possibly deep underground in their bunks to be called upon when needed, such as when they asked for "2 squads to help" when Han duped them, so they obviously had a lot of spare troops hanging somewhere nearby.
     
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  6. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    How do you know that there were only "a few teddy bears". The editing of ROJ was not the best, only a handful of Imperials seemed to storm the bunker (definitely not a legion), thus it's rather fair to assume that the amount of Ewoks participating in the battle was not accurately conveyed.

    On the contrary, I'm rather certain that each stormtrooper faced 20-50 angry Ewoks coming at him. I'd rather prefer to think of the Ewoks as piranhas in fur. One may be cute but once they show up in numbers you are toast.
     
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  7. jimmycrank

    jimmycrank Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015

    I like that analogy! I always struggle with Ewoks beating Stormtroopers but this certainly helps, thank you!
     
  8. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    Endor was like a outpost so very lightly patrolled. Nobody is on the moon other than highly cultivated teddy bear looking hunter gatherers. Most of the other officers on the moon facilitated the construction of the Death Star so we have work crews moving up and down from the moon with personnel installing sections into the Death Star. As the fleet had arrived they were greeted by a functional operating system. The work crews were evacuated to the surface and all the other construction parts were used as part of the deception against the Rebels falsely believing the Death Star was some way to go before it was up and running.
     
  9. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    I remember one time me and my Dad were watching ROTJ, and when the 2 squads ran out of the bunker, he said those are awlfully small squads. He is a ex navy officer.
     
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  10. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    If the locals are a bunch of hunter gatherers a squad is more than a match. For all we know the Ewoks have been living side by side with the Death Star work crews and Stormtroopers for a very long time. Gave them the opportunity to make all those elaborate traps.
     
  11. ImpreciseStormtrooper

    ImpreciseStormtrooper Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    I guess the Ewoks are Fremen-lite. The size of their forces clearly much larger than suspected. Perhaps we should read it as an underbudgeted Zulu War movie where we only saw a fraction of the combatants.
     
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  12. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Exactly. And people may hate the Ewoks, but history has shown guerilla attacks do work and can topple a powerful enemy. The jungle was the home of the Ewoks, and that must have given them some advantage. The Empire has the firepower, but as Luke says to Palpatine, overconfidence is a weakness.
     
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  13. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    The only way the Ewoks winning works is if...

    1. They had better weapons than what they had.
    2. They outnumbered the imperials at least 5 to 1. Think Battle of Little Big Horn...

    But neither of those happened on screen which is why that battle is pretty dumb.
     
  14. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 8, 2015
    MidKnighT

    The basic problem with ROJ is it's editing. Do you really think you saw an entire "Legion" of the Emperor's best men on screen. Do you really think these few Imperials leaving the bunker were several "squads"?

    Apparently they had budget issues to bring more actors and/or costumes to Crescent City. Thus we have seemingly small numbers - both for Imperials and Ewoks.
     
  15. Jedimaster_Darklight

    Jedimaster_Darklight Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2005
    I don't think I've ever questioned the whole "Ewoks versus Imperials"-battle. It may be a simple result of nostalgic acceptance, but I've never had a problem with how ROTJ handled the scenario. It felt perfectly logical for me that a group of natives were able to overwhelm the Imperial troops. After all, the Ewoks had multiple advantages, like knowledge of the terrain, their size and number. Another aspect of this also lies in how the typical Stormtrooper is presented in ANH and ESB. While they appear menacing in their white uniforms, they are never shown as being very effective at what they do, and I believe that also helped me accept their defeat without question.

    I do see the problem with the Emperor's statement about the number of troops on the forest moon. It's hard to judge whether or not he was exaggerating the number to throw Luke out of balance, or if there really was a legion of troops waiting to deal with the attacking rebels. However, since the Emperor pretty much staged the entire attack himself, I find it unlikely that he would neglect security on the moon... he just didn't expect the Spanish Ewoksition to ruin his plans.
     
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  16. jc1138

    jc1138 Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 16, 2004

    I have no problems with the Ewoks, and always felt that although cuteness was certainly part of what they were about (see especially the baby Ewok) there was a viciousness to them. People can of course disagree on whether or not it was effectively portrayed, or even there at all, but I see the viscousness because not only were the Ewoks going to roast and eat Han, et. al., (it's not cannibalism as frequently described, Han isn't the same species as the Ewoks after all, but yes I'm being pedantic), but, what more speaks to me of the danger they pose is that they are shown with needle-like teeth, bone accoutrements, wary and ready to attack outsiders, very good at sneaking and camouflage, and so on.

    Yes, the Endor Moon ground battle section of the Battle of Endor does become sort of a "let's see the cool tricks/traps the Ewoks set up, Swiss Family Robinson style," and probably would have benefited from a few shots of Ewoks overwhelming Imperials piranha-style, but, as with so much of Star Wars, it presents me with one facet of a scene/battle/etc and implies/infers that a lot more went on (such as the Emperor's "legion" line), which opens up my mind and imagination to act out or run with.
     
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  17. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005

    This is actually a battle where I think CGI would have helped. We should have seen an entire "legion" of troopers and we should have seen at least 5 legions worth of Ewoks.
     
  18. Storm_Cloud

    Storm_Cloud Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 13, 2016

    I re-watched 1-6 twice through before going to see 7. The second viewing was with the director's commentary. What I watched on screen in the battle on Endor did not tally with what George was saying. It is true he originally thought of Wookies instead of Ewoks, but he wanted a culture with no concept of technology. Additionally, the commentary discussed how the Ewoks weren't there to win but rather to largely distract the Stormtroopers, to keep them busy so they couldn't solely focus on the "Rebel scum". This doesn't really come through in some of the shots - using their jungle traps is fine, but the sight of midget space bears beating up the Emperor's finest legion of Stormtroopers with rocks didn't translate the vision, in my opinion.
     
  19. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    The Rebel Alliance allowed Han to proceed with his plan to sabotage the shield generator. General Calrissian requested Admiral Akbar to give Han a chance when he was seriously considering to turn tail. On the surface the Ewoks came across as harmless however with Han & Leia leading them they really could be organised to take on a sizeable squad of Stormtroopers. C-3PO was interpreting what Han was saying to the Ewoks so they clearly realised they needed to prepare for an all out war against the Shield Generator.
     
  20. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013
    One scene that seems to match this is when the imperials run into the woods chasing the ewokes. Overall the film isn't too clear about the ground battle.
     
  21. ImpreciseStormtrooper

    ImpreciseStormtrooper Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 8, 2016
    Yeah. Stone age warriors vs modern infantry and tactics don't usually fare too well. The Zulus fielded 4000 odd against 140 odd troops and were massacred - losing 34 warriors to every British casualty. And they weren't even a fully mechanised unit with air support.

    But the fact they had 28 times the forces to make it an honest struggle is the key point.

    If something similar played out on Endor there couldn't have been more than 50 Imperials (suggesting about 1400 Ewoks?).

    4200 Imperials would have meant 10's of thousands of Ewoks might have been needed!