CT Imperial Political and Military Ranks

in episode 4 they seem to be different from episode 5 (ie admiral Motti and Admiral Piett and Ozzel have different rank plaques) and in episode 6 it's known that they screwed the system up all together giving every imperial officer the same captain/commander plaque

 

so I know a Grand Moff outranks a Moff but are Moff and Governors the same rank or is a Moff more highly ranked
as in Star Wars Rebels, RO, and in the OT, Tarkin is addressed as Governor quite a lot while he is ranked as Grand Moff and overseer of the Outer Rim
While I thought Moff's were in control of Imperial sectors since there are a council of 20 of them
and Governors were only in control of one star system

thoughts?

 

Snafu55 wrote

In episode 4 they seem to be different from episode 5 (ie admiral Motti and Admiral Piett and Ozzel have different rank plaques) and in episode 6 it's known that they screwed the system up all together giving every imperial officer the same captain/commander plaque

Yes, the rank plaque system underwent a revision between ANH (and the Holiday Special) and ESB. In ROJ there didn't seem to be much devotion to continuity and diversity (where is a John Mollo when you need him?), but a least the chest-pocket cylinders helped to distinguish a "captain" from a "commander":



http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...y-may-contain-ep-vii-spoilers.50024351/page-7

Frankly I don't understand why the Rogue One Visual Guide claims that rank plaques could either indicate rank OR affiliation. The Art of Star Wars (1979) has a John Mollo sketch with Imperial "bureaucrats" and on the upper top right you can clearly see that the badges indicate rank, unfortunately the sketch is cut-off at the edge, but reveals the ranks of "captain", "colonel" and "general" to be distinguished by different colors on the same rank plaque size.

Illustrated above you see how the ranks match both Imperial and Alliance personnel, based on the onscreen information we got from ANH and ESB. Since the "Imperial Forces" are a combined service (rather like Nelson's Royal Navy with "blue" sailors and "red" marines), there is this unorthodox mix of naval and army ranks.

 

I've always thought Governor (system) < Moff (sector) < Grand Moff (over-sector). But as the whole Moff organization is to "govern" and provide security to the Imperial populace through control of the Imperial Military and bureaucracy/government, any of their rank could be called Governor.

 

I always thought that Imperial military structure was somewhat odd. We have the Army paired with the Navy, an ambiguous Marine Corp, and no airforce. Instead the airforce and the Navy seem to be the same branch. All of which are controlled by people of purely Naval command structure, who are in turn commanded by regional governors. It's like a twisted statist/authoritarian dictatorship.

 

It's weird how the imperial military is largely commanded by political officers unless from what Rebels Recon says where a Grand Admiral outranks a Grand Moff when it comes to military vs political matters otherwise Generals and Admirals report to political Officers such as governors, Moffs, and Grand Moffs

 

Maybe Moffs, Grand Moffs, etc tend to be military officers given political rank? Tarkin was an Admiral once, and Jerjerrod a Rear Admiral.

 

I think it's a reward for military officers because Governor Pryce said that Admiral Konstantine was more "Politician" than strategist
cause theres only 20 Moffs and I assume most of them were high ranking officers like Tarkin and Jerjerrod as you said
But I don't get why Tarkin is mostly called "Governor"

 

I would guess that "Governor" is a general term covering everything from planetary governor to Grand Moff - with Moff and Grand Moff being formal titles not normally used in common conversation, with the more general Governor favoured instead.

 

I was guessing that as well but is Governor a formal rank such as Pyrce below Moff and Grand Moff

 

Well Governor's seem to outrank Admirals and Generals in military operations (and Political officers do wear military officer's uniforms)

 

Makes sense... when you think about it

 

In the EU, Moffs underwent a change of role - from governing the 20 Oversectors (late in TCW-era) to governing the thousand-odd Sectors (Galactic Civil War era) - with the implication that they were now vastly more numerous but controlled much less territory per moff.

It's not clear yet if this will carry over to the newcanon.

 

I would love to see all this governing clarified in some new canon book

 

It is confusing no doubt. You can either give the Army and Starfighter Command (SFC) their own transports and carriers or you can have the Army and SFC be driven around by the Navy which I think makes the most sense but that arrangement definitely secures the Navy as the most prominent branch of the military.

I also don't think the Stormtroopers require their own branch, I see no problem with them being a unit type in the overall Army. Same with a Marine Corps type invasion/landing/assault force, can these forces not be specific divisions within the Army as opposed to their own branch which would leave the Army as only a ground combat/garrison force?

I love to discuss what the most efficient structure for the military and government of a galactic would look like. I spent too much time thinking about this.

I think the Moff ranks are a quasi-military organization, in that they can command the objectives of the military (but not the operational aspects of the military) and of course "govern" their territories.

What I would like to know if what the relationship is between the Grand Vizier and the Grand Moffs. I see the Empire (Grand Vizier) as federal, Grand Moffs as state, Moffs as county, and Govenors as municipal. Each has their own budget and resources but **** rolls downhill if you know what I mean, as in everyone reports to their superior. Of course some things are federally controlled and some things are state controlled ect.

 

May not be a hierarchy as such, various special positions are assigned to Admirals, Directors, Governors & Grand Moffs and they govern in accordance with the dictats and commands of the Emperor and his inner council. The forces that make up the majority of the Empire serve as little more than centurions with no command responsibility other than to be subordinate to assigned commander. It is quite possible we then have overlapping responsibility and some Snr officers agree to orders that are in contravention to the Emperor's rule by decree laws. Keeping in mind the Emperor is not a civilian role and not beholden to any elected assemble. Members of his own army would be making their own rules up as we saw in ANH, ESB & in Rogue One,

 

In various ancient navies with overseas colonies there was a clear hierarchy, i.e. "Grand Admiral" outranks "General Governor" which outranks "Governor".

 

In the Star Wars continuity their does not appear to be any pattern to command hierarchy. Besides the Emperor who we see the Admirals, Governors and Directors all have separate roles and rule through a council. Perhaps they have an elective system and some officers are assigned a greater weight. This is all conjecture but every time we see the Imperial officer class they are usually all together and decisions are made through consensus as in ANH. Snr officers even get away with seeking clearance from higher ups when they are denied clearance from their immediate commander. Krennic went over the head of Tarkin to Vader and attempt to gain access to the Emperor himself. Therefore it looks on the surface to me at least that the rankings are fairly loose.

 

It would seem like the generals and admirals in the ANH counsil outrank the rest of the generals and admirals in the military

 

I agree there isn't very good continuity with the ranking systems in Star Wars. In ANH, Tarkin clearly outranked Vader, seemingly the only film officer to do so. How in ROTJ the Rebels easily made anyone a general such as Han and Lando, the latter leading the starfighters in a navel battle. Also in ROTS where General Grievous lead the CIS starfleet in the largest on film navel battle in Star Wars.

 

yeah I think we all know military ranks in star wars don't correlate very realistically... like all the generals leading fleets and seeing very few generals leading armies outside of the clone wars...