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Saga in defense of lucas films( pertaining to the sequel trilogy)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by KnightOfRen66, Mar 4, 2018.

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  1. KnightOfRen66

    KnightOfRen66 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 11, 2017
    So for some background, I got into star wars around 2011 when my uncle let me borrow the amazing thrawn trilogy by timothy zahn. I then proceeded to read all his books that he owned(at the time almost everything post-ROTJ up to the end of the new jedi order series). I then had bought everything that came out up to the ending of the fate of the jedi series. I have, since disney bought lucas films, watched and bought most star wars things they put out. I enjoyed the prequels as a child, but after I had delved into the EU of star wars I grew a dislike for the prequel trilogy. My favorite star wars movie happens to be empire strikes back(Which happened to be the one lucas had least creative control over).

    so to my point, I think that the prequel trilogies are very flawed and just not very good movies in general. I believe this has to do with the fact that George lucas had complete creative control over it plus he pretty much disregarded everything he had told the EU writers about the clone wars previously when making them(causing inconsistences in the legends EU). I believe what made the OT so great was that lucas did not have complete control. his stupid decisions and dialogue were vetoed by others involved in the film. He is a decent story teller and obviously without him we would not have star wars but the point still stands.

    The prequels had ****** dialogue, was shot mainly in front of a green screen, had freaking jar jar binks, and made the jedi look like fools. I personally think that the hints of the clone wars timothy zahn had sprinkled in the thrawn trilogy( that it was a war caused by clones gone bad) and all that fun stuff would have been better.

    but one of the main things that really bugged me about the prequels is that it caused a shift in the EU at the time from diverse storytelling (culminating in stories like the yuzhann vong stuff even if the first half of it wasn't that great) to bringing the sith into every god damn story line. Why did jacen have to become a sith lord? why did there have to be a lost planet full of sith? why did we have to have darth krayt's sith lords in the legacy comics? why did every conflict in the old republic era have to boil down to essentially sith vs jedi, sith vs sith, or jedi vs jedi? why couldn't we have amazing series like the x-wing series again

    I would say that if they had gone with whatever idea lucas had for post-ROTJ ( which probably would have ignored the EU anyway due to recent evidence that he only considered his movies canon anyway) then the sequel trilogy would be ****. I really like they did not bring the sith back. yes it kind of sucks they essentially brought back the empire via the first order but what can ya do? i love kylo ren and that he is neither a sith nor a jedi. he is just a dark side user that wants to rule the galaxy. I like that rey is a nobody that was in the right place at the right time to essentially be blessed by the force to become the equal of ben solo. I like that they gave luke moment of weakness when he sensed the dark in his nephew that ultimately lead to ben falling to the dark side completely. I will admit i did not like the parts with finn and rose but hey ya can't like everything. I enjoy poe he kind of reminds me of corran horn.

    I do not expect everyone to like the sequels and in fact people disliking them is expected. But people act like star wars without lucas isn't star wars without him but that isn't true. the majority of the EU was only approved by lucas( may not have even actually been him just other higher ups that he would have read the books/outlines to make sure they didn't conflict with what he had in mind) and i find the legends EU for the most part to be far superior to the actual movies themselves. so I am glad george lucas is no longer in control because i think he in fact would have ruined star wars if he ever had decided to do movies again.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Discussing what you like about the ST or dislike about the PT (or vice versa) is fine, but this thread will not turn into a Lucas vs. Disney fest.

    Everyone involved needs to keep this on discussion, as opposed to “This sucks and that doesn’t.”

    @Bazinga'd
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
    heels1785 and Bazinga'd like this.
  3. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    What exactly is the question or point of this thread?

    Honestly asking because I don't want to end up repeating the same things I've already repeated in too many PT and ST and Saga threads already.

    Suffice to say this. All opinions are reactionary. There is no formula to making films that appeal to and retain the largest possible number of fans.

    So I don't subscribe at all to -

    - the way things/characters are/were supposed to be (unless it's been unambiguously stated in the text of a previos film)

    - the way things are/were supposed to be done or not done


    There's only one rule. If it works, leave it in.

    That's what got Lucas through the OT but I don't think he carried that forward to the PT as well as he perhaps could have. And he was too enamored about realizing a complete visions of something that he has often admitted was never fully completed even in his head (other than the ideas and themes he wanted to include.) Lucasfilm seems to have relaxed its grip on the idea of a complete narrative. Enough for what makes a good movie and a great star wars movie to take priority.
     
  4. KnightOfRen66

    KnightOfRen66 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 11, 2017
    my point is that the people who say that the ST feels nothing like what george lucas would have made while the PT does are in my opinion wrong. That the PT feels very disconnected from the OT in the themes it presents. The force in the OT is spiritual and gives the idea that anyone who wants to can access the force with enough willpower. while the PT makes it so you can only access the force because of your midichlorian count and the more you have the more power you have. The PT was what gave us the idea that the skywalker line was powerful in the force. in the OT yes Luke and Vader were both powerful but it was never implied it was because of their blood line. The PT also gave us the idea of anakin's destiny of being the chosen one. it was never said in the OT that he was. GL basically added a lot of nonsense in the PT that contradicted the OT.
     
    Avnar likes this.
  5. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    It's not a matter of opinion, and it's not wrong. It's right. It's a fact. The PT feels exactly like what Lucas would have made because, well, he actually made it. The opposite can be said of the ST. He didn't do the ST. He's not involved in any of it. And most importantly, it's not following the story he made for them. So yes, it feels nothing like what Lucas would have done precisely because they decided to, and are doing, a different story. A fact acknowledged by both sides (Lucas himself and Disney's Lucasfilm).
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  6. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Let me repeat what @anakinfansince1983 said:

     
  7. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    There is so much ambiguity and subjective interpretation you have left out of this it's astounding.
     
  8. KnightOfRen66

    KnightOfRen66 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 11, 2017
    let me rephrase add onto what i said. It does not feel like something George Lucas during the time of filming the OT would have made. obviously the ST does not exactly have the same feel as the OT, but it feels a lot more like the OT than the PT ever did.

    Plus there is evidence to support that what the PT would have been if he had done them directly after he did the OT they would have been radically different than what he ended up doing.

    I think that creators lose touch with their products over time. You can see it with someone like frank miller. He wrote some amazing batman comics during the 90s. but he progessively wrote edgier and edgier things that culminated in the trash that is all star batman and robin and that series he did ****ting on islam.

    Or you could even look at DBS. you could say the quality of it is nothing like DBZ had. Especially because it is being created decades after DBZ's original was.

    My thoughts in essence are that the GL that created the PT was not the same GL who made the OT.
     
  9. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    By that token, since the PT doesn't feel like the OT, that means that Lucas didn't make the OT.
     
  10. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    I sticked to the facts on purpose. It's the facts that don't corroborate the original claim. Subjective interpretations are for opinions regarding the movies themselves.

    How do you know? And even assuming that it's true, was it supposed to? It's not the same story. It's not the same era. It's not meant to be the same. Both the OT and PT complement each other.

    That was Disney's main purpose. Not to tell the original story that Lucas gave them, but to emulate the original trilogy. Their marketing and approach was focused on that. Heck, they've said it themselves multiple times that it's what they wanted to do. So they did.

    Erm... What?!

    No. That's a false dichotomy.
     
  11. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 23, 2011
    We don't know how much or how little of Lucas's ideas made it into the finished film. You're offering your interpretation not the objective facts.
     
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  12. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    You're the one that introduced it, stating that the PT feels like star wars the way Lucas would do it because, etc.

    Since the OT doesn't exactly feel like the PT, then it cannot feel like SW as Lucas would do ot like PT does. Ergo....

    If it's more complicated than the crude statement you initially made then don't blame me for presenting the "false" dichotomy it created.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  13. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
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