Senate [In-Depth Discussion] United States presidential election: 2012

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by kingthlayer, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    Frankly I don't hear much from the New Zealender white people, or the Australians who are getting a large infux of Asians and Indians (and they only relativly recently started allowing non white immigration), Candaians are getting and influx of Indian, Pakastani and Bangladeshi people, as well as non caucasian people from all over the anglophile world.

    heared some anti immigration and or racist rhetoric from within the European Union, But it's problems with immigration is similar to Japan. The people just are not use to immigration as opposed to the emmigration which was the norm for nearly 500 years.
  2. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    I wont deny the concervatives have embraced a great many racist, homophopbic, and thugish aspects of the american fabric, or that the Obama election has made some rabid with retractionism.

    But Conservative principles are centerd around small government, low governement spending, low buisness restrictions, (Which I personaly believe is unfeasable due to increase inteactivity between econonies and national governments, that the US's rivers and natural biosphere has taken a beating since the industrial revolution and many rivers are poisonus and wild game inedable, and small spending vs a popuation of 300 million people). are all valid view points
  3. BootlegVader Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2004
    star 4
    Frankly, history speaks a quite different story on what conservative principles are centered around. Simply, the reality of the matter is the majority of conservatives( at least American) only care about small government and low spending when they are out of power. Otherwise, when in power they are firmly entrenched with the belief that deficits don't matter.

    Just look at the man that modern American Conservatives idolize, Ronald Reagan, during his presidency the debt ceiling was raised 17 times, and practically doubled the national debt in his first term and by the end of his second had tripled it compared to what is was under Carter.

    Additionally, you have the Republican poster boy for fiscal conservationism, Paul Ryan, who had no trouble supporting two unpaid for tax cuts, two unpaid for wars, stimulus spending in 2002, the massive entitlement expansion of Medicare Part D, and TARP all during years when Republicans were in control.

    Only, now that Obama is in power does his little mind start worrying about how will things be paid for and even then it fails as he continues to support unpaid for tax cuts and increase in military spending.

    Simply, Modern American Conservationism is simply based on the principle of "charge it" until the Democrats take power then it is their responsibility to figure how to set the nation's finances back together by sacrificing their values and wants.
  4. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Link

    This truth is also suspect to the GOP. When you create your own reality and any intrusion upon that fact is an idea to be scorned then you've officially lost it as a party. The real scorn in all of this, though, should be reserved for the media that kept claiming this was a horse race when it clearly isn't. We can either live with this travesty of stretching the truth or demand real change and accountability from our 'news' media.

    Yeah, it sounds like I'm talking about our political system, but the only reason why things are so insane is because our media fails us. It reports things that aren't facts. It offers refuge to those who wish to deny reality. And it ultimately tries to offer up false equivalency to every batcrap crazy idea that's out there.
  5. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    The horse race narrative was truly appalling and it certainly wasn't just conservative outlets either.

    I remember an analyst on an MSNBC roundtable saying, "Can we all take a moment to appreciate how incredibly close this race is?" the day before the election. Sadly I haven't seen any change from the incorrect, "Hurricane Sandy stopped Romney's momentum" tag line either.
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  6. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    You might want to hold off on comparing vote totals against 2008 for a few weeks. In 2008, because of absentee ballots, provisional ballots, and so forth, Obama gained about 4 million votes after election day, while McCain gained about 2-3 million votes. This year, particularly with the increase in provisional ballots (due to voter ID laws) and the disruptions caused by Sandy, we could see even more votes added in the next week or two.

    It's likely that Romney will be about even with McCain, and Obama will be about 5-6 million short of 2008, when all is said and done.[/quote]

    Your last statement is assuming Romney makes up all of his vote share from 08 while Obama does only half which is unlikely, I'd think.

    My initial thought was that 08 was the record because of Obama's ground game difference in emphasis on states. In 08, they had a much, much more in depth operation in PA as it was initially closer and they also contested Missouri and Indiana whereas this year they all but abandoned those two states. Nate Silver doesn't mention this, but does point out that turnout was higher in the battleground states this year but lower in non-battleground states.
  7. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    My assumption was based on the fact that Romney was only about 2 million behind McCain's vote totals while polling ahead of McCain in pretty much every state, while Obama was about 10 million behind his 2008 total. If McCain got an additional 2-3 million votes after election day with a lower level of support than Romney, it's not unreasonable to assume that he'll get at least another 2 million votes to equal McCain's final total. At the same time, if Obama is polling below where he was in 2008, and he's 10 million votes behind his 2008 totals, it's not unreasonable to assume that he'll get no more than the additional 4 million votes he got in 2008, leaving him 5-6 million votes short of his 2008 total.

    So, it's not an unreasonable assumption that Romney will wind up matching McCain's 2008 total, while Obama will miss his 2008 total by several million. Obama had more of a deficit to make up for from election day totals.
  8. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
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  9. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    oh god yes. he came out of the bunker. despite having no reason to ever speak to the media again, romney is already showing his face to the press. someone up there is looking out for me
  10. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Only rich white people are allowed to vote in their own interests, dontcha know.
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  11. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Looking out for the late - night comics too. The jokes will be interesting tonight or tomorrow night.

    But seriously? Obama won because of 'gifts' to minorities and young voters? Seriously?

    That whatever you believe in that this man is not President-elect, because he's once again shown himself to be completely clueless and incompetent as a leader.
  12. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    its just like... this is why he never had a chance. how does it make any sense to speak to the media at this point? he ran for the presidency with a major party nomination and he lost... there's really nowhere for him to go from there, politically, so its not like he needs to keep up appearances, he's not a sitting senator like mccain was, and its not like he's gonna become some lucrative new media figure like huckabee or palin or some of the other, lesser failures because even republicans dont like him. what does he think he has to gain by whining to the media? the smart thing to do would be to hide out for the rest of his life like gwb

    what a doofus
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Nov 14, 2012
  13. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
  14. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    a republican psychopath
  15. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Oh, but don't you know, giving "gifts' to richer white people BENEFITS the entire country by creating jobs. Giving "gifts" of such as health care is going to bankrupt the entire country.

    As an older, white woman with a middling income (at least before my current unemployment) - where's MY gift from Obama? I have health care, don't need contraceptives, student loans... why - why I should have voted for the twit. (It hurt to type that.)

    Someone really needs to call out the Republicans on this idea that 47% of Americans are leechers - they're kids and retired adults, white and all ethnicities. By his standard my 83 year old RETIRED mother is a leech because she's not employed and paying taxes.
  16. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    Last edited by Yodaminch, Nov 14, 2012
  17. Bender666 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    star 2
  18. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    So the reasons Mitt and the GOP lost:

    Not antigay enough
    Most of us are moochers who want 'free stuff'
    Paul Ryan wasn't used enough
    Voter Fraud

    Did I leave out any good ones?


    The stubbornness and arrogance of these people can not be adequately measured. Even when facing such a loss that most everyone else saw coming, their answer is to retreat farther and farther from reality and dig their heels in.
    Last edited by Yodaminch, Nov 14, 2012
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  19. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Which is why I'm calling it right now that Santorum or Bachmann will be the GOP pick in 2016
  20. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    Palin/Bachman 2016

    You betcha!
  21. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    [face_sick][face_sick][face_sick]
  22. Yodaminch Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 6
    Though it does bring up an interesting thought. How amazing would it be if that pair did run against Hillary and another female democrat. Would certainly drive several Republicans further insane. Which is why we won't see something as bold as that any time soon, but still a fun what if? scenario
  23. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
  24. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    He did beat his daughter-in-law because he wanted to win. There is no grace in this man. Not in his business practices, not in how he feels about his underlings, and not in his politics. I sure hope he doesn't believe in the hell myth, because I doubt he'd escape it.
  25. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    Oh Mitt.

    Let's all reflect for a moment that someone that politically tone deaf was a major party nominee. Could you imagine a president that disdainful of so much of he population. Of course his crying fit matches perfectly with the makers and takers myth Republicans are comforting themselves with in light of the loss (including in this thread) so it shouldn't be surprising.