In God do you trust?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Stridarious, Dec 4, 2002.

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  1. Stridarious Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2002
    star 6
    How do you feel about the issues over the dollar bill law-suit? Do you feel that what that man did was right?
  2. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    There's actually a lawsuit about that?

    Do you have a link to a news story about it?
  3. Stridarious Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2002
    star 6
    No actually do not, not atleast for the moment but the moment I find it, I will link it I promise...
  4. Gotterdammerung Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2002
    star 3
    I find it rather amusing, although the man was justified in protesting. Perhaps it did not warrant a lawsuit, but he was justified all the same. I would agree with him. The First Amendment of the United States Constitution clearly states freedom of religion. Government imposition of any kind in belief in a particular god is unconstitutional.
  5. Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 5
    I'm lost. What are you all on about?
  6. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    The First Amendment of the United States Constitution clearly states freedom of religion. Government imposition of any kind in belief in a particular god is unconstitutional.

    I agree 100%.

    EDIT: I looked throughout CNN.com, but could not find anything about this supposed lawsuit.
  7. Sithlord818 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    What are you all on about?

    I'm wondering that myself.
  8. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    What are you all on about?

    I'm wondering that myself.


    It's a violation of the United States constitution. No matter how "minor" it may be, it is still breaking one of the most important laws in the country.
  9. Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 5
    Oh good. It does, does it?

    What does?
  10. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    What does?

    Printing "In God we trust" on United States currency.
  11. Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 5
    This thread is like a cryptic crossword puzzle. I think I'm starting to put it together though.

    The US $1.00 bill has "In God we trust" printed on it somewhere.

    Someone has taken someone else to court because it's a perceived violation of the American Constitution to do that.

    Am I right?
  12. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I don't know if that lawsuit is true. I looked for an article on it, but haven't found one.
  13. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    This guy who brought the lawsuit is the same guy with his kid in school that he didn't want saying the Pledge of Allegiance.

    IMHO, it should remain on the currency. :)

    Here's some history on the matter FYI:

    US Department of Treasury
  14. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    IMHO, it should remain on the currency.

    Why?

    Fact Sheets: Currency & Coins

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    History of 'In God We Trust'
    The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:

    Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.
    One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.

    You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

    This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

    To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.


    As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861:

    Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins.
    You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.


    It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States. This meant that the mint could make no changes without the enactment of additional legislation by the Congress. In December 1863, the Director of the Mint submitted designs for new one-cent coin, two-cent coin, and three-cent coin to Secretary Chase for approval. He proposed that upon the designs either OUR COUNTRY; OUR GOD or GOD, OUR TRUST should appear as a motto on the coins. In a letter to the Mint Director on December 9, 1863, Secretary Chase stated:

    I approve your mottoes, only suggesting that on that with the Washington obverse the motto should begin with the word OUR, so as to read OUR GOD AND OUR COUNTRY. And on that with the shield, it should be changed so as to read: IN GOD WE TRUST.

    The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

    Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quar
  15. Sithlord818 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    Printing "In God we trust" on United States currency.

    It's a violation of the United States constitution.

    I don't think it is.

    But, should the United States government completely turn away from anything having to do with the/a "god", it will not bring the country closer to perfection, as some believe, but it will be the beginning of the end for it.
  16. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I don't think it is.

    But, should the United States government completely turn away from anything having to do with the/a "god", it will not bring the country closer to perfection, as some believe, but it will be the beginning of the end for it.


    Yes, the United States government should not have anything to do with religion. Believe it or not, but that's what the founding fathers wanted.
  17. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    I don't believe it. George Washington, among others, constantly led prayers in an official capicity. Also, check out Washington D.C. Christian and Jewish history is all over the government buildings.
  18. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I don't believe it. George Washington, among others, constantly led prayers in an official capicity.

    George Washington wasn't the only founding father. For example, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were not practicing Christians.
    Besides, Washington did not write the United States constitution.

    The First Amendment

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
  19. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    You propose to know the intentions of the founding fathers, yet you dismiss that of Washington! He knew a lot more about what the rest of them intended than you or I will ever know. He set an example, one that his contemporaries (otherwise known as the founding fathers) did not critize.

    I think there is much to be learned from that.
  20. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Read the first amendment.
  21. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    I have, and so did the first Congress. They did not impeach Washington.
  22. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object.

    [face_laugh]


    It's a violation of the United States constitution.

    I don't think it is.


    How is it not? It's the government professing a religious belief on behalf of the people. That doesn't sound like establishing the nation's religion to you?


    But, should the United States government completely turn away from anything having to do with the/a "god", it will not bring the country closer to perfection, as some believe, but it will be the beginning of the end for it.

    If you want the United States to be a more godly nation, try getting more people to behave in a godly manner - just stop trying to use the government to do it. You and the members of your church can go out and proclaim the Gospel to all creatures. The government cannot and should not do the same.
  23. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    They did not impeach Washington.

    I didn't say anything about impeachment. I don't care what the first congress did, some laws are clear violations of the constitution. Some people are blind to it because of their religion, which is unfortunate.
  24. Southernjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 4
    If you want the United States to be a more godly nation, try getting more people to behave in a godly manner - just stop trying to use the government to do it. You and the members of your church can go out and proclaim the Gospel to all creatures. The government cannot and should not do the same.

    The government isn't. It's not saying go to church. It's not saying Jesus rocks! The motto is a statement that a majority of Americans believe in.

    The First Amendment is talking about government not creating an official church that people are required to belong to, like the English had (Henry VIII created the Anglican Church as the official church for the UK). The First Amendment wasn't saying the government is in the business of promoting atheism (which could be classified as its own belief system, i.e. a system of no beliefs) or trampling religious rights as many today believe.
  25. Lyta_Skywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2002
    star 2
    Ok, Excuse me for being PC here (I really hate PC, however, I see its use here in the capacity of Devil's advocate), I am Wiccan, and if I chose - not that have a problem with it stating 'In God We Trust' on printed money - however, I can see some feeling, well if it says that, I believe it should say 'In God and Goddess We Trust' - Wiccan or 'In Allah We Trust' - Islam (sorry if mispelled) or 'In Satan We Trust' - Satanist or 'In Ourselves or No One Do We Trust' - Atheist. Unfortunately we have painted ourselves into a corner and find the fact that people call us on PC, we have no real choice but to respond. For some reason, the old adage, 'You can please some of the people some of the time, and other people other times, but you can't please all the people all the time', has gotten lost in this age of political correctness, we seem to think that if everyone is not doing something to please EVERYONE, they are slighting us, and that is wrong, though I myself am not Christian, I personally think this is absurd, and would really like to see the news article on this.
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