In retrospect, the sith were the good guys.

Film after film it was drummed into our heads that the Sith are bad and that the Jedi are good. Why? because that's just the way it is. The Sith are ugly and they scowl, and the Jedi are handsome and have hot lady friends. And we buy it. We approach the film having no interest in challenging this preconception that we've all been hand-fed. To challenge it would be considered either ignorance or just plain silliness.

But if you take an honest look at it from a wholly independent and untarnished perspective, the Sith are arguably better people than the Jedi! Admittedly this may be more unintentional than the product of Lucas's design. I don't think he meant for the Sith to be better people. I just think he was so convinced and complacent by this idea that the Sith were bad that he sort of forgot to establish it in the films sufficiently enough.

The Empire formed under the direction of Palpatine brought law and order to a galaxy comprised of thousands of star systems, many of which were engulfed in chaos and lawlessness. Just look at Tatooine. Would you rather see Hutt justice or Empire justice? Hutt killed innocent people in brutal ways for his personal entertainment while the streets of Mos Eisley were ran by the galaxy's most heinous criminals. Storm trooper patrols were a welcome sight in that lawless land. If you were an innocent victim in trouble on Tatooine, and had no relation to the Rebellion, would you rather run to the nearby storm troopers for help or fend for yourself? There's nothing in the films that makes me believe they wouldn't help you.

We consider the atrocities and supposed wrongs carried out against the said Rebellion as evidence of the Empire's evil nature... but we must remember that the Rebellion is seeking the complete destruction of the Empire. They are the enemies of law and order, that which the Empire seeks to maintain and uphold.

Outside of the Rebellion the Empire's treatment of individuals was arguably fair and just. In line with any good lawful and just society. Outside of those who sought to commit treason and the destruction of a galaxy of order, Storm troopers didn't go around killing people on Bespin, or Tatooine, or on any other system. They didn't go about terrorizing or abusing people. They only maintained law and order. Recall that even when the Rebellion was on the brink of bringing down the Empire in Return of the Jedi, that the storm troopers still exhibited considerable restraint and judgment, and when catching rebels would say "freeze" and hold them for detainment rather than shoot them dead on site.

In fact, if there had been no rebellion in the films to begin with, I believe we wouldn't have found any conflict enough to warrant one. Without the rebellion all the Empire would be guilty of is stationing peace keepers in lawless lands, patrolling contraband cargo, keeping people like the Hutts in check, checking clearances for access to secured areas, giving control of the individual territories to the local senators, and creating millions of new jobs.

They had holding cells for criminal outlaws. They brought about peace. Even Benjamin Franklin I believe it was who said that a bad Government is better than no Government. Not that the Empire was even bad.

Obviously the most controversial aspect of this perspective is the destruction of a planet of people in A New Hope. But if you look at it from the perspective of it being a breeding ground and base of the rebellion, and in perspective of the law and order of thousands of systems hanging in the balance, it was no more controversial and probably no more casualty ridden than the rebellion's destruction of the two death stars.

Contrast this plight of the Sith with that of the Jedi, who believe in mind-controlling diplomacy. Have you ever seen a Sith control somebody's mind and deprive them of that which is most sacred, even free will? Never, but we have seen them present people with a choice and allow them their right to decide. In fact, I would say it is a dominant feature of their philosophy that the indiv

 

THEN YOU ARE LOST!!!!

 

Notice that it was always the Jedi who were so quick to label people lost. Recall how little patience Yoda had for Luke when Luke wanted to do what he felt was right. Yoda was so quick to cut Luke off, so quick to stonewall his questions and his thoughts and his thinking outside the box.

Contrast that with Palpatine and Vader, who were usually the ones to tell Luke the truth, who listened to his arguments and deliberated with him, who did not disregard or stonewall his thoughts but sought for him to explore them.

You know it to be true.

 

This.


Also, if you want serious discussion, you should take this to Saga.

If you want people trying to be funny in response, then this is the right forum for you.

 

and how do i move this to saga?

but in any case, i don't mind humorous replies.

 

- Good governments don't slaughter children, I very much doubt that Yoda would have gone kermit on a load of Sith kids.

- don't they practice in a thing called the DARK side?

- treachory and betrayal are good qualities to have? "oh i'm more powerful then you are now master, now i'm going to kill you, payments for a care home are going through the roof because of this Jedi influenced government"

- peace does not equal oppression

- creating a power station to blow up peaceful planets or planets with not very good defence systems is also not good evidence to suggest the Sith were the good guys.

 

And had the Jedi never taken young Anakin from his childhood home and left his mother to die in slavery, deprived of her only son, what would have become of those younglings who were slaughtered in ROTS? What would have become of those younglings had the Jedi never taken them from their respective homes? What would have become of Anakin's mother? Or the series? Taking young children from their loving parents and putting weapons of death in their hands and training them to fight in a malicious and will-depriving Jedi tradition of self-righteous tyranny and deceit.

It's interesting that all the problems the Jedi claim to solve are usually caused by them to begin with. On the other hand, the Sith are solving problems inherent in the universe, and only growing confrontative when faced with the problem-causing Jedi.

Anakin's travels through the gray zone between sides was ugly, but more the result and reflection of the doings of the Jedi than anything else. When he became more experienced in the ways of the Sith he turned into a man of law and order. And like a good father, he beckoned Luke to join him as father and son. The Jedi were more accustomed to destroying family relationships than anything else. Commanded celibacy. Forbidden loves. Yoda, deceptive and defiant when it came to Luke's relationship with his father, sought to distance the two, just as he and the Jedi had done with Anakin and his mother many years before. It took nothing short of Luke's rebellion against what was left of the Jedi establishment to rekindle that familial relationship and find a happy resolve.

Isn't it interesting that the Jedi used trickery to take Anakin to begin with, but were unwilling to do the same for his mother? Picking and choosing their self serving interests even at the cost of a boy's mother. Telling an Anakin worried about Padme's life to just let go and stop having feelings or emotion. It's not enough that they leave one love of his life to die in slavery on a desolate planet but now they're telling him to take a hike when faced with the death of his new love? Is it any wonder that he was so twisted and confused between Jedi and Sith?

Isn't it interesting that there's no such thing as Sith mind-control? It's a Jedi art. Controlling people's minds and making them serve your purposes is a Jedi specialty. A stark contrast to Vader telling Luke that he is his father when no Jedi would, and the Sith constantly allowing and even depending on Luke and others to exercise their free will to decide things for themselves. Yoda lied. Did Vader ever lie? Obi-wan controlled people's minds. Did Palpatine ever control people's minds?

The Empire were peace keepers. The Jedi were manipulative rulers of self-interests.

 

smh @ bad analysis.

How is it that the Sith are the good guys? How is the philosophy of "The weak serve the strong" good? So far all you've done is criticize the Jedi. That's good and all, but you haven't shown how the Sith are good. You've only shown how the Jedi are bad.

 

I don't get how the stormtroopers and the Sith have the looked-for connection. You seem to be going off in a different direction by mentioning stormtroopers. I understand that they work for the Empire, but how does this make the Sith good? They destroyed a planet; that's something I don't ever believe the Jedi did.

 

1. Anakin was not forced to go with Qui-Gon, he chose to go of his own accord.

2. how do you know the Sith don't practice the same thing? they might take infants to train too.

3. The Jedi mind trick wasn't used on Anakin or any other Jedi that I'm aware off

4. wasn't his attatchment to love that lead to Anakin's doewnfall? Yoda was looking out for Anakin's best interests.

5. Palpatine told Luke to give in to his anger, since when are you in control of yourself when angry?

 

1. young children don't have the ability to make decisions for themselves. at least not in a manner that can be used as an excuse for wrongs committed by the jedi.

2. they might, but we don't know. what we do know is that the jedi do. we can only judge by what we know.

3. it's the fact that the jedi mind trick was used on people. taking away people's ability to think for themselves is a grave violation of the most basic rights life has to offer. only the jedi have done this.

4. if love was never severed in the first place then would they have ever faced these problems? like i say, the jedi are actually causing many of the problems they are facing. in an interesting reflection of life imitates art, or in this case art imitates life, commands of celibacy have caused problems in real life as well.

 

I see the Empire as being the ultimate design and achievement of the Sith.

 

yetoso, so far you've only managed to show why the Jedi are bad. Now why don't you at least attempt to show why the Sith are good?

 

I believe I have done so extensively, albeit a lengthy read. I recommend it.

 

1. Rubbish, Kids can make decisions, not to go off with strangers is the first principle thing they learn.

2. I think, emphasize on think, Darth-Maul was trained from birth.

3. it was not used on Anakin or Luke.

4. a love for your love of your life is no where near the same thing as the love for your mother.

5. you agree with number 5 then?

 

You're making a leap of logic... justifying the Sith by criticizing their enemies (the Jedi).

That is a flawed a argument. The deficiencies of the Jedi were part of the reason they fell (IMO). I think Lucas points out how they had largely lost touch, etc. What's wrong with the Jedi is an entirely different argument, and one in which you make some fine and interesting points.

It's when you try to justify the Sith or their actions, much less call them good guys, that your position is beyond unjustifiable...

1) All your law and order talk is textbook fascism, seriously. You are on horribly shaky ground here. There is no defense or need for a debate on this point.
2) As pointed out, the Sith slaughtered a temple full of children... 'nough said.
3) Destroying an entire planet because it was a hotbed of sedition? How many hundreds of millions of innocent people do you think were on that planet? Would it have been okay for Britain to murder every man, woman and child in what would become greater Pennsylvania during the American Revolution? Again, there's not even a counter argument here.
4) The Sith/Empire torture people (Han in ESB), and not even for neeeded information ("They didn't even ask me any questions").
5) The Sith celebrate hate- a society whose philosophical foundation is not equality but the nuturing of hate and fear. Such a society in human history would rightly be seen as an abomination.
6) Stormtroopers, since you pointed them out so many times, killed an innocent family on a farm. They didn't detain them, hold them for questioning, etc. They murdered them, along with a whole bunch of innocent Jawas, when none of these people were guilty of anything.

 

1. you're saying that it's okay to take a X year old child away from their home if the child consents. that's just not reasonable. any modern society applies reasonable limits to the ability of a child to consent to certain things. in this situation, the responsibility falls on the adult to recognize that the child is not mature enough to make a decision.

2. well i'm just using the films as the extent of my argument, but i suppose if we consider additional sources that my argument could be unfounded. i don't know.

3. okay, okay, that's fine. but i am talking about how the jedi use it on anybody. controlling anybody's mind is a gross violation of fundamental human (and alien) rights to be independent thinking sentient beings.

4. they are both tremendous loves. the point is the jedi have tried to sever these loves.

5. what was number 5? i have to click back.

 

1. there are differences between lawlessness and law and facism. the empire brought law.

2 & 3. discussed

4. he was a treasonous rebel who sought to destroy all the law and order the empire brought to a ruthless galaxy.

5. In the films they seemed reasonable. Maybe they celebrate hate in the books. If so then that is a legitimate argument.

6. stormtroopers, again, got ugly only when faced with a threat against the order of the galaxy.

 

Palpatine told luke truths, and sought for luke to explore the truth. Yoda sought to suppress the truth. Anger is not always bad. If it results in the Empire it certainly isn't.

 

Dude, the edit button is your friend. Triple posting is bad.

 

It just looks like I triple posted. They're actually unique. We're just going back and forth with the numbered lists.

Or do you mean combining posts to save space?

 

1. never said that, I was pointing out children aren't stupid with a mind of a beetle.

2. i'm not sure wqhether this is fact or not either.

3. fair point, was it Obi-Wan's business to stop a basic drug dealer to stop selling drugs, probabably not, yet you seem to think this would be right if the empire did a similar thing. Correct me if i'm wrong.

4. it was Anakin's choice to leave his mother and to give in to his feelings for Padme,

5. lol

 

It looks like you triple posted because you triple posted.

That's the truth.

You can respond to multiple people in the same post. I've seen it done before. It's not just myth

 

1. i agree

3. well, it's hard to know exactly what the empire would do. but if they were to put him in a detention cell i would probably prefer it to them controlling his mind. our identity, our thoughts, are one thing that i don't think anybody should ever have control of.

ohhh, okay, i see. to combine posts you mean. i thought you meant duplicate submissions.

well, you know, you guys are probably right of course. i'm just looking at it from a different perspective. i guess i can see how sometimes i'd prefer to be apart of the rebellion, but i can also see times when i'd prefer the empire. i just think the jedi have made plenty of harmful mistakes and adhere to dangerous tradition, whereas the empire is not a half bad accomplishment of the sith.

 

I agree with Kiki on this one. Plus, as I said before, the Empire destroyed a planet by using it as bait to find the hidden Rebel base. Although Tarkin pulled it off, the Emperor obviously had something to do with it.