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In Retrospect: What were the Tuskens Doing with Shmi?

Discussion in 'Archive: Attack of the Clones' started by Green_Destiny_Sword, Jan 2, 2004.

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  1. Green_Destiny_Sword

    Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost star 5

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    Jun 20, 2001
    I watched about 40 minutes of AOTC on cable last night and saw the entire Tatooine sequence. Shmi had been missing for a month as a prisoner of the Tuskens. We know Anakin finds her tied up (to a make shift cross?) and frees her just before she takes her last breath. But what were the Tuskens doing with her for a month? She wasn't being held hostage. It was clear the Tuskens had not communicated with the humans. Cliegg thought she was certainly dead.

    To survive a month she would have to have food and water. Her face was swollen, brusied and had gashes. Were they just keeping her alive to beat her everyday? It makes no sense. She should have been dead or in a better condition. Being at the very point of death for a month is just unrealistic.
     
  2. funkymace

    funkymace Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2003
    Good point, did they like untie her to let her go to the bathroom or what? Tuskins are weird im not sure what they were up to.
     
  3. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    What were the Tuskens Doing with Shmi?

    I'd have thought it was obvious. But then I guess it takes some people longer than others to get to the same point...
     
  4. DarthGelatinous

    DarthGelatinous Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    May 15, 2001
    I don't think GL would have even implied what you're thinking.
     
  5. Green_Destiny_Sword

    Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Are we talking about sex? It's hard for me to believe that would be the case.
     
  6. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Being at the very point of death for a month is just unrealistic.

    She had obviously been losing her fight for life during that month, but its coincidental that when Anakin found her, she had reached the point where her death was very close.
    She had obviously been beaten and treated very roughly for that month but in such a way that she remained alive after any beating. But with each beating it took more of her life force and brought her closer to death.
    Its quite a sick ritual and one I dont even want to begin to understand.
     
  7. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    I think Lucas wants you to just imagine your own thing there. It's supposed to be a little creepy, and presumably George thinks we can imagine something even more repulsive than he could put onscreen (as Terrious has done for us here, heh.)

    The novel says that the Tuskens were keeping her to test the limits of human endurance, to understand their enemy by having one on hand.

    Personally I don't like that explanation.

    I always picture them sort of taking their hatred of humans (who they don't seem to get along with, clearly) out on Shmi. I don't think they'd ever think to hold her for ransom (how do you negotiate terms with a Tusken? Does Threepio speak their language?)

    I also sort of picture their beating of her as a religious ritual. They feel good when they hurt her, like they've fulfilled a purpose.

    Those are MY feelings on the matter, anyway... it's all up to your imagination. :)


    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  8. SaberGiiett7

    SaberGiiett7 Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 2, 2002
    Even though Shmi had been in a stasis on the threshold between life and death it wasn't intended to be coincidental that she died when Anakin had time to bid farewell.

    His arrival marked the completion of her life and she could finially rest in peace. :(

    There's a variety of reasons the Tuskens could've been holding her. I'm not even going to try to guess.

    <[-]> Saber
     
  9. Cmdr_Gabe_E

    Cmdr_Gabe_E Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2003
    i personally think the tuskens made her into their own personal slave --- probably ordered her to do stuff for them (though i'm really not sure what "tusken chores" are like o_O). maybe they asked her to chop wood for their fire or sew their clothes and huts or sumthin...

    aaahhh...poor shmi...if only anakin had arrived sooner
     
  10. TrueJedi

    TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    I was personally disgusted by what Lucas did to Shmi. It was utterly horrifying and I don't think that it was necessary to the story for us to see something as gruesome as that, especially in a film that was meant for children.

    Jar Jar was added to the saga because according to Lucas and McCallum, they wanted to appeal to small children. But, what the heck were they thinking when they put Shmi's abuse in a film made for kids? So, is seeing the result of someone's mother beaten and raped then finally murdered part of Lucas' vision of children's entertainment?!!

    Someone should tell Lucas that what he did in this regard was irresponsible, disgraceful, and disgusting.
     
  11. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    The Tusken Raider's young have a rite of passage ceremony when they are old enough. They are to torture a living being (like a human for example) as long as they can without killing them. It's a delicate balance between torture and keeping her alive.

    It's horrifying, but that's the point.
     
  12. Cmdr_Gabe_E

    Cmdr_Gabe_E Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 26, 2003
    The Tusken Raider's young have a rite of passage ceremony when they are old enough. They are to torture a living being (like a human for example) as long as they can without killing them. It's a delicate balance between torture and keeping her alive.

    It's horrifying, but that's the point.
    THEN IT WAS JUST DAMN RIGHT THAT ANAKIN KILLED ALL DA WOMEN AND CHILDREN TOO!!! dude, those tuskens are twisted beings!!! i wouldn't want them campin' in my neighborhood --- heck, not even in my planet O.O!!! anyway, thanks for the info!!! sick creatures they are. die they must (yeap! i do hate 'em >.<).i wouldn't even wanna know what they look like under all those clothes.
     
  13. Green_Destiny_Sword

    Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost star 5

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    Jun 20, 2001
    Where is that "ceremony" explanation from?
     
  14. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    But TrueJedi, that's the POINT. To an extent.

    Lucas did the same thing with the burned, charred bodies in ANH. Now, ANH still qualifies as a kid's movie, I'd say, and I think that's probably the goriest moment in the whole saga!

    He's showing the evil. The BAD GUYS did those things. He's condeming it. Certainly not glorifying it.

    I thought Shmi's condition was tastefully presented -- a shock to see, but not something too gory for a child to look at. I wouldn't mind a kid of mine (say, age 5 or 6 at the youngest) watching any of the SW movies -- sure, there's violent bits, but it's hardly "Kill Bill" or something!


    Just as he did with the bodies in ANH, Lucas is portraying the evil, and the effect it has on the hero, without shying away from it, or prettying it up.


    If you were horrified and disgusted by what you saw on that screen, imagine what Anakin must have felt when it was his own mother, and real, and in front of him.

    And imagine the dark rage that brewed in his soul, and how justified he must have felt to reach for his lightsaber.



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  15. TrueJedi

    TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    AdamBertocci:

    I think the comparison between what happened in ANH with Uncle Owen and his wife and what happened to Shmi is not very good.

    The shot of Uncle Owen's body was far away and quick. You couldn't make out gore and so it's no big deal. But the Shmi scene was lengthy, gruesome, and the idea that she may have been sexually violated is horrifying.

    Let's put it this way: I feel Owens death was handled rather well but Shmi's death could have been handled far better and more suitable for children.
     
  16. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Hey look, I don't think Lucas is saying Shmi got raped. The thought might have never entered his mind. If Terrious wants to interpret it that way, well, fine. But you're also free to believe that the stormtroopers raped Owen and Beru, or that Boba Fett unfroze Han and...

    Actually, that WOULD explain why Han's clothes seem a bit different between his freezing in ESB and unfreezing in ROTJ... :eek:


    But seriously folks. Do you think a child would think Shmi was raped? Maybe I'm just naive, but probably not. While we can certainly discuss whether or not WE think Shmi was raped, I don't think it has any bearing on the movie's effect on children.
    Truly wonderful the child of a mind is. ;)



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  17. Cmdr_Gabe_E

    Cmdr_Gabe_E Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 26, 2003
    The thought of Shmi being raped actually never crossed my mind!!! first of all, that is just SICK!!! second, the tuskens don't seem like the kind of creatures who would do such stuff o_O.....they're the kind who'd feed you to a rancor--- NOT rape you x.x

    LMAO @ Adam's version of what happened to Owen and Beru. LMAO!!! (though i still think "TROOPS" explains rather well what truly happened to them. LOL!)

    as for han and boba,,,,i think they both wanted it (or sumthin...)
     
  18. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    If someone sees this scene and assume "rape", then the "damage" was done before seeing AOTC.

    I think the explanation about why Shmi was tortured was included in the TPM novelization.
     
  19. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Gabe -- so you've seen Troops! :D Cheers! Yes, I always liked that explanation best.

    / fan film fan :)



    The thing about the Tusken scene is that, in truth, IT DOESN'T MATTER what they do to Shmi.
    They could have beaten her, raped her, neglected her, whatever.
    All that matters is what Anakin saw. Which is actually a frightening thing. For all we know he was completely unjustified in killing the Tuskens -- maybe she tied herself to that pole! :p

    But the impression he gets, from the sight of her scars (if not the attitude toward Tuskens from the local yokels) is enough to drive him over the edge.

    Notice that when Shmi sees him, she doesn't say "Help me" or "They tortured me" or "Those vicious bastards, avenge me" or "They can't make coffee worth a damn". She just wants to tell her son she loves him. Well, we can apply that to the scene. In this case, it's not the story that drives the scene, it's the emotion and the characters. Because the story is unclear. It has holes in it. Much like Shmi's skin. ;)

    It's not what happened that's important, it's how Anakin feels about what happened.


    BTW -- to anyone offended by my jokes about poor Shmi -- you should see my jokes about Corpsey the Dead Ewok. :D



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  20. TrueJedi

    TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Go-Mer-Tonic:

    If someone sees this scene and assume "rape", then the "damage" was done before seeing AOTC.

    I'm not sure what you mean by that but the scene at face-value implies any number of horrifying acts suffered by Shmi. It's not a question of whether someone has been psychologically damaged by seeing this scene but instead the question is: Is what happens to Shmi appropriate for a film geared towards children? I don't think so, but you may think otherwise.


    I think the explanation about why Shmi was tortured was included in the TPM novelization.

    How many children that see the film are going to read the novel? Even so, it's not a matter of "why" but instead a matter of "what" happened to Shmi that is the issue here. Torture often includes any number of brutal acts that involve horrible acts that may include sexual violations of the individual.

    Again, seeing someone's mother in such a situation is, in my opinion, not something to which children should be exposed.
     
  21. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Is what happens to Shmi appropriate for a film geared towards children? I don't think so, but you may think otherwise.

    Well, for what it's worth, organizations like the MPAA in America (substitute your own organization here, foreign friends :) ) see the film and help make this choice. (For better or worse.) They gave AOTC the thumbs-up.
    It DOES come down to an issue of personal taste, of course. At the risk of bringing LOTR up again in this forum, I would not allow a younger child of mine (say, below the age of 10 or 11) to watch Peter Jackson's LOTR movies (I wouldn't allow anyone of any age to watch Bakshi's. tee-hee!), due to the presentation of blood and guts. I'd suggest the same kid waiting till, say, 13? for Braveheart.


    I think the explanation about why Shmi was tortured was included in the TPM novelization.

    How many children that see the film are going to read the novel?


    That's not the point. He's merely answering Green's question about what the Tuskens were doing. It has nothing to do with your issue.


    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  22. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    TrueJedi, what you are worrying about is something that is not presented by the film. All we see in AOTC is that Shmi has been tied to a rack by the Tuskens, that she has obvious scrapes cuts and abraisions, and that whatever the Sandpeople were doing had her on the edge of death.

    It would only be an outside assumption that there was anything sexual about what had happend to Shmi, and if the "kid" in question is assuming that, then obviously AOTC was't the film to expose them to that concept in the first place. Also, the fact that Shmi is completely clothed when Anakin finds her suggests nothing of the sort.
     
  23. DarthTerrious

    DarthTerrious Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    Hey look, I don't think Lucas is saying Shmi got raped. The thought might have never entered his mind. If Terrious wants to interpret it that way, well, fine.

    Adam I didnt actually interpret it that way, I only said "Beaten and treated roughly".

    Rape is, however, quite common with primitive societies, especially in conjunction with kidnapping people and taking them as prisoners.

    It could be thought that she was indeed raped as well as subjected to severe beatings. But frankly its something I never really linked with Shmi's capture.

    EDIT:
    Oh I see what people are thinking, well you're taking my words the wrong way (typical of this place):

    I'd have thought it was obvious. But then I guess it takes some people longer than others to get to the same point...

    I meant being beaten, I mean come on we all saw the marks on her body....its pretty obvious she was treated to some terrible torture.
     
  24. anakin_girl

    anakin_girl Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2000
    The novelization says that the Tuskens tortured Shmi to test her level of endurance and stopped just before the point of death. The visual dictionary says that the Tuskens captured a human as a blood sacrifice, and tortured and raped said human (I don't have the book in front of me, someone would need to quote the passage--there's a two page spread on it). By doing this, the young Tusken "achieved manhood".

    No, the Tuskens didn't untie her to let her go to the bathroom. I'm sure that some of the Anakin-hating Tusken defenders I've seen around these boards would prefer to think Shmi invited herself into that camp and tied herself to that pole though because she enjoyed being tortured. [face_plain] [face_plain]

    Count me among the group that has no mercy on the Tuskens and is very glad that Anakin didn't either.
     
  25. TrueJedi

    TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    The visual dictionary says that the Tuskens captured a human as a blood sacrifice, and tortured and raped said human


    Yikes!! :(

    What was GL thinking?
     
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