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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

In Retrospect: What were the Tuskens Doing with Shmi?

Discussion in 'Archive: Attack of the Clones' started by Green_Destiny_Sword, Jan 2, 2004.

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  1. Hutt_Slut

    Hutt_Slut Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2004
    The same thing applies to Shmi's "condition" what they did exactly isn't supposed to be know

    They tortured her. She had cuts on her from what they did to her.

    What I meant the exact details of the toture are supposed to be left to the imagination. (some of us are more demented than others...)

    What I was saying, man, was that the scene isn't supposed to be clear cut right or wrong actions on either part. It's purposely hazey. It's meant to disturb us, whether by the actions of what we can infer the Tuskens did or by Anakins reaction to that.

    The scene always reminds me of a line from Galaxy Quest (a much underrated movie)...
    "Somethin' bad happened here."

    The point of Anakin's trip to the Dark Side is that it's something that could happen to anyone.
    Now whether you call Anakin's actions Justice or Murder everyone can agree that it was first time he felt Anger, Fear and Aggression "boost" his powers.

    I always looked at the Force like this. The Force is something that the Jedi can tap into through meditation and concentration but you can feel a stronger connection when you are angry, frightened or emotional. The problem is that to feel the Force at that level you have to lose a certain amount of control and not only that but it becomes increasingly more difficult to keep yourself angery. Which is why the Dark Side initially boosts your power but overtime corrupts you and turns you into a shell of a man.

    What ever you feel about what happened in the Tusken camp the main point is that Anakin felt that rage power and lost control. Whether you think it was Justice or not, he obviously felt he over-reacted. And that let's us know that he has tasted the Dark Side.
     
  2. Emos-Edud

    Emos-Edud Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2002
    For crying out loud. Shmi was tied face-down to an a-frame. What would they be doing to her besides raping her? All this EU nonsense about torture rites is just for the kiddies who can't decipher the clues that Lucas has provided.

    1) Shmi's position
    2) Shmi's furniture
    3) Cliegg says the Tuskens are "animals."
    4) Anakin's Oedipal issues
    5) What usually happens to women who are kidnapped or taken hostage?
    6) Lucas is referencing "The Searchers"
    7) The fact the Ep2 is the "sex/romance" film of the saga - This last part is not debatable. There are more references and allusions to sex, romance, skin, passion, wombs and beds than any of the other films. Heck, it ends with a marriage that leads to procreation. (And if you want to know about the symbolism of the execution arena, just PM me. I got banned once for telling it like it is.) Shmi's rape shows the dark side of carnality.

    Shmi was raped. End of story.
     
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    If that's the only conclusion you are able to draw from what we see in the film, then for you that's the end of the story.
     
  4. Emos-Edud

    Emos-Edud Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2002
    What other conclusions are there to draw from the film alone? That they were using her as a decorative hat-rack? A dart board? Modern art?
     
  5. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

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    Aug 22, 1999
    They may just be torturing her.
     
  6. Emos-Edud

    Emos-Edud Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 29, 2002
    Rape is torture.
     
  7. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Is that the only torture you can think of?

    Perhaps they were not torturing Shmi in a sexual way. She did have all her clothes on.
     
  8. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    anidanami
    .I stand by what I say The Tuskens are evil.

    ..If there are rats in my house you can bet I'm going to be exerminating them.


    Can I ask you to clarify something regarding Anakin's killing of the Tuskens -

    1. do you think that what Anakin did was wrong?
    2. Do you think that he thinks it was wrong - killing all those tuskens, the men, women and children.

    g
     
  9. Emos-Edud

    Emos-Edud Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2002
    That's the only torture that makes sense given that her legs are on a spreader bar. Her clothes are on, but is she wearing a skirt?
     
  10. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Suit yourself then.
     
  11. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    That's the only torture that makes sense given that her legs are on a spreader bar. Her clothes are on, but is she wearing a skirt?

    I just don't see there being rape in the scene.
     
  12. Emos-Edud

    Emos-Edud Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2002
    Well, duh, it didn't happen in the scene. It happened off-screen, assuming of course your imagination works with the clues presented.

    1) Female captive
    2) Tied face down with legs spread
    3) Theme of sexuality in the film
     
  13. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    No I mean I just don't see it at all. I don't even think GL was trying to hint at that.
     
  14. Emos-Edud

    Emos-Edud Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2002
    Uh, I seem to recall the AOTC commentary bringing up the homage to "The Searchers." Lucas knows what that implies.
     
  15. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Don't go attributing your assumptions to Lucas.

    Lucas didn't go so far as to show that rape had transpired.

    You added that to the scene with your own mind.
     
  16. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    I think it's fair to say that Lucas, knowing about The Searchers, knew what that scene would entail, and that people WOULD make that connection.

    Doesn't mean he neccesarily wants you to carry the connection the whole way. Otherwise you'd have to assume that everyone on Tatooine was a cowboy, or something. :p

    Let's put it this way: I don't think GL would mind the fact that people are interpreting it as a rape. I certainly feel he assumes that his target audience (kids) won't catch that. Lord knows I didn't know what rape was at the age of 9.

    Heck, I didn't even know what "The Searchers" was.



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  17. Vaders_leash

    Vaders_leash Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Rape never occured to me, either. I assumed they doing this as a sportsmanship kind of rite of passage: to see how long they could keep her alive - getting back at the human settlers.
     
  18. ObiwanJohn

    ObiwanJohn Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2003
    "4) Anakin's Oedipal issues "

    Um I'm really curious about this one. Sure he loves his Mom, I love my mom, but I don't want to kill my father and marry her. It's possible I missed something but I really haven't seen anything to show that angle.
     
  19. Jainalover

    Jainalover Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Shmi Owens was tortured by the mindless Tuskens for reasons that are never explained in the film itself. But I do not think she was violated the way a few seem to think she was. In fact I highly doubt it and agree with my friend Go Mer Tonic. There is simply no foundation for this train of thinking. I doubt Lucas was trying to convey this at all.
     
  20. openmind

    openmind Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    I didn't get that idea about Shmi either. But I feel we should consider looking at it at the angle of what Anakin was feeling.

    To me the pain and anguish he felt after seeing his mother in that state and dying in his arms, I would consider Anakin's opinion of the Tuskens, that he felt there was no use in sparing them, none of them. He became judge and jury, and showed what power can do.

    In addition he seems to have been influenced by two particular men he could deem as his fathers- Palpatine and Cliegg. The former tells him, he'll be come more powerful than Yoda and tells him he deosn't need guidance and to trust his feelings. The latter took care of his mother, freed her, gave her a home and whose impression of Tuskens were "mindless monsters".

    Anakin at the same time, was criticized by his mentor, had to do as the Council instructed, and not getting that support he so apparently needed.

    So as his mother dies, he's chooses only one option.

     
  21. Jainalover

    Jainalover Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2004
    I just finished reading the account in the hardcover novelisation. To be honest I still do not understand what the Tuskens thought they were doing by kidnapping her. According to the book it was not typical Tusken behavior.
     
  22. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I think people are being alittle too subjective people are inherently more perverse than others for thinking "Rape" when they saw Shmi's position here.

    In truth I think its how realistic you honestly believe the saga to be.

    For those who believe Star Wars is for kids then you don't think about such things. Villians kill, torture, and do other things that are never encountered in most 'day to day life' but its larger than life evil.

    For those who believe George is alittle more deep the issues of rape, Nazism, second class citizenship, child abuse, and more all come up in these particular stories

    What exactly do we say for a person who thinks of the Clone Troopers and the arguement is

    "They're like droids, programmed killers"

    vs.

    "Oh My Force, they are giving ten year old kids guns and telling them to kill! Stealing away their child's bodies!"
     
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